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Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

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Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#91

Post by maxerickson »

mikeash wrote: post #50
guftagu wrote: post #4

Isn't this exactly the premise of the movie Gattaca? Great movie, BTW.

IMO Gattaca makes a great case for genetic testing. An idiot with a major heart condition bluffs his way onto a space mission where he's likely to die and endanger the rest of the crew. If the testing had been a bit more thorough (say, if the doctor in charge of testing had done his job) then the mission wouldn't have been endangered. It's strange to see everyone hold up this movie as an argument against this sort of…

It's never shown that he actually has a heart condition.

The character is also clearly not an idiot.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#92

Post by maxerickson »

mikeash wrote: post #84
rosser wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either missed or evaded my point, simply to re-state your own. (Also: nice shadow-edit.)

I don't see where I'm evading or missing your point. Perhaps you could explain? And I didn't make any shadow edits. You sound rather paranoid.

Did he die during the mission? Did he really have a heart condition?

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#93

Post by mikeash »

maxerickson wrote: post #91
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Gattaca makes a great case for genetic testing. An idiot with a major heart condition bluffs his way onto a space mission where he's likely to die and endanger the rest of the crew. If the testing had been a bit more thorough (say, if the doctor in charge of testing had done his job) then the mission wouldn't have been endangered. It's strange to see everyone hold up this movie as an argument against this sort of…

It's never shown that he actually has a heart condition. The character is also clearly not an idiot.

It's stated repeatedly. Cmd-F "heart": http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Gattaca.html

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#94

Post by ghaff »

McKayDavis wrote: post #30
bobcostas55 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the downside? If the info was irrelevant then I'd understand it, but obviously genes are relevant to risk. Just as there's nothing wrong with e.g. age-based discrimination, I don't see the problem here.

> Just as there's nothing wrong with e.g. age-based discrimination, Sure there is, are you familiar with the Age Discrimination in Emloyment Act of 1967 [1]? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_Discrimination_in_Employ...

Easy to understand why someone working in tech might assume it was legal though :-/

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#95

Post by mikeash »

maxerickson wrote: post #92
mikeash wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see where I'm evading or missing your point. Perhaps you could explain? And I didn't make any shadow edits. You sound rather paranoid.

Did he die during the mission? Did he really have a heart condition?

He really had a heart condition which put him at high risk of death during the mission. That is stated in the movie. We don't know if he died during the mission, but I didn't say that, merely that it was likely.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#97

Post by maxerickson »

mikeash wrote: post #93
maxerickson wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never shown that he actually has a heart condition. The character is also clearly not an idiot.

It's stated repeatedly. Cmd-F "heart": http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Gattaca.html

That's a draft of the script though, not the final film.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#98

Post by gred »

mikeash wrote: post #81
barrkel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conflict at the heart of the movie is between the rational vs the emotional. In so far as it makes an argument, it's a weak one; but the core it is in the discussion between the brothers about the race / rescue from the sea. It's rational to curtail ambitions; it's rational to give up if you see no hope of an endeavour succeeding. But Ethan Hawke's character didn't let his rational mental model limit what he coul…

I agree with that. It's unfortunate that the movie attempts to illustrate this emotional drive to achieve with something that puts others in danger. If the protagonist had only been risking himself, it would have gotten the message across far better. It's particularly unfortunate because it would have been so easy to fix. The risk to others is unnecessary to anything the movie is saying. That it wasn't fixed says to…

> It's strange to see everyone hold up this movie as an argument against this sort of testing.

Interesting viewpoint! It seems to me that the genetic testing was nothing more than a convenient proxy for measuring actual performance. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, and by actually performing, Vincent proved that the proxy was (in many ways) flawed.

> either the writers couldn't be bothered to think things through, or they believe that personal ambition is worth any price

The whole story is about emotion vs. reason, about whether or not the human spirit can be neatly quantified, categorized and filed away, and about the complex trade-offs involved. I think it's more likely that the writers were aware of this aspect of the plot, and gave us that much more food for thought...

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#99

Post by gergles »

maxerickson wrote: post #91
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Gattaca makes a great case for genetic testing. An idiot with a major heart condition bluffs his way onto a space mission where he's likely to die and endanger the rest of the crew. If the testing had been a bit more thorough (say, if the doctor in charge of testing had done his job) then the mission wouldn't have been endangered. It's strange to see everyone hold up this movie as an argument against this sort of…

It's never shown that he actually has a heart condition. The character is also clearly not an idiot.

I think the treadmill scene very very strongly suggests he has a heart condition, given that he partially collapses in the locker room and we can hear him having a palpitation.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#100

Post by maxerickson »

mikeash wrote: post #95
maxerickson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he die during the mission? Did he really have a heart condition?

He really had a heart condition which put him at high risk of death during the mission. That is stated in the movie. We don't know if he died during the mission, but I didn't say that, merely that it was likely.

I'm pretty sure that in the movie they say that the genetic tests point to a high probability of a heart condition.

It's left ambiguous as to whether he actually has a deadly heart condition.

There's the scene with the treadmill, but that can just be to show that he is normal.

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