For what it's worth, in Germany the title of Engineer is regulated and the correct term for those who write software (which goes in the contract) is "Software Entwickler" (Entwicklung means "development"). There's a few more complications here that I don't know very well. I don't completely agree with this because serious engineering work on software happens in many industries. But most software jobs clearly do not f…
Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
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Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#42I call myself a Software Engineer specifically because I see it as different to being a programmer. I don't just write code, I try to solve problems in a rigorous and maintainable way, while being aware of the wider implications of my work to the business, our customers, and anyone else who might be affected by it. Sure we don't have the same regulation as civil engineers, but I try to do my work in the same spirit.…
This misses the point that all other types of engineering are regulated and licensed.
Perhaps we're just looking at a category of engineering that is not yet at that level of maturity.
Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#43Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#44If doctors weren't a licensed profession, they would still be doctors.
If barbers didn't need a certification, they would still be barbers.
Defining an "engineer" based on how much regulation they must follow is kind of ridiculous. It's putting the cart before the horse.
Which is not to say that the software field doesn't need regulation to improve the protection of customer data and the reliability of increasingly critical services.
Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#45Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#46If a developer says "I am an engineer" it is only ever in the context of a tech company, where everybody knows what they mean. No programmer would say to their friends & family "I am an engineer" without any further context.
"Software Engineer" does not denote any additional rigor, no matter how much you want it to. It may or may not connote rigor, depending on a dozen contextual factors that will tell you much more about the presence of rigor than the title will. It's a title. It means computer programmer.
Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#47While I don't much like software developers calling themselves engineers either, it was hard not to read this and think that about a week ago I was reading all about a dam that seemed poised to fail and thousands of people had to be evacuated; or about a miracle of engineering, a skyscraper in SF that appears to be sinking ( https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/san-francisco-millenni... or, oh, here's an entire Wiki…
>I don't think anyone died as a result of a lack of proper collaboration and regulation in software development. Come work in healthcare, you may change your mind. In healthcare, a lack of domain expertise, rigor, collaboration, and regulation kills people every day. And inhibits our science. And is the root cause of billions a week in waste. Yes, most web content and it's delivery we could do well, or be better off,…
Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#48Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#49Whatever they want to call us, just don't care. More than OK to address myself as software developer, programmer, hacker, code writer, keyboard dancer, etc. Joke aside, what the heck is Certified? So your software skills can asserted, by written test, that last for several hours...? I refuse to acknowledge that online judge style algorithm questions could qualify or disqualify one person's capability to build softwar…
Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)
#50I strongly disagree with this assertion that failures in tech make us undeserving of the moniker 'engineer'. Software systems are inherently complex, and we have built incredible testing tools, processes, continuous integration, monitoring systems, and infrastructure to add strong rigor to our discipline.
As part of most engineering degrees, students explore case studies of where engineering went wrong and failed. I can assure you that there are many failures in civil engineering (see ASCE's report card), mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and other engineering disciplines just as there have been failures in the tech industry.
Licensure is not as applicable to the tech industry, and certifications have been cheapened by low-quality applicants. They've become a negative signal. Additionally, the tech industry, in my opinion, innovates at a significantly faster pace than the licensed engineering disciplines. Perhaps these are correlated in some way.
Companies like Google are right not to overvalue degrees. If someone has the requisite knowledge and ability, it should not matter whether they learned from a book or on their own. Software interviews are significantly more rigorous that interviews in other engineering fields. Civil Engineers are not expected to be able to whiteboard open channel flow problems during an interview, but software engineers are expected to answer multiple interviews of algorithms and system design questions.
This article is just long-winded, useless rambling. Rage against Silicon Valley all you want, but we call ourselves engineers because we _are_ engineers. Software runs critical infrastructure in medicine, finance, aeronautics, traffic control systems, the electrical grid, and even the internet infrastructure used to deliver this nonsensical article. I suggest the author read about incidents such as the Therac-25.