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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#91

Post by fiatjaf »

_yosefk wrote: post #85
fiatjaf wrote: post #68

> "Political advertising online needs transparency and understanding" As if that wasn't a problem outside the web. Defenders of democracies like to dream about "transparency and understanding".

"Defenders of democracies" live in democracies. Defenders of dictatorships and monarchies, from Jeremy Corbyn (who had kind words for Castro) to neoreactionaries, also live in democracies, presumably because they're not actually stupid enough to believe what they say. Democracy is a lesser evil, which many people born into it fail to appreciate because their imagination does not render the greater evils realistically…

Is there anyway to prove you wrong? Or is what you just said the absolute immutable truth forever?

Because I have the impression that there's nothing I can say that will make you consider my arguments -- as I live in a democracy --, or to even think about them -- as you also live in a democracy, and as you seem to have accepted as a principle that "democracy is a lesser evil".

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#92

Post by petra »

holografix wrote: post #65
marcus_holmes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't beautiful pages. We geeks, who can understand the code, decry the complexity of a beautiful page and prefer not to go there. But we're 1% of the audience. The other 99% are used to equating beauty and style with quality. More style == more quality. Less style == less quality. The pages we love because of their simplicity don't do well in the mass market because of their simplicity. I have taken to callin…

I know what you mean. Frankly I think the Kardashians are a force for evil. Promoting selfishness, superficiality and female independence through hyper sexual objectification. Why are they so popular? Total mystery to me.

Maybe because it let's everybody feel superior over someone else.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#93

Post by jacobush »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #87
keypress wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a browser issue. More an authoring issue. You could serve up pages as text files, with as little html as a link.

There is a special circle of hell for people who write documentation on pages so javascript heavy that a lynx browser on a computer with broken graphics drivers can't load it.

At least writers of documentation for graphics drivers.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#94

Post by fiatjaf »

mborch wrote: post #44

The new web needs to be distributed in a privacy-preserving sense. Today, you can't realistically browse the web without getting identified and – generally speaking – geolocated. What we need is a model where you pull information you request from distributed and diverse pools of public domain content.

> distributed and diverse pools of public domain content

Like what Keybase is doing?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#95

Post by Joeboy »

Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

> I'm not sure what the actual answer is

I wouldn't say this is the actual answer, but it would go some way if browsers supported nicer default styling.

Businesses are always going to want their sites to look conspicuously "designed", because it signals to the user that it's a successful business that can afford to piss away money. But for the rest of us it would be nice if you could publish an unstyled website that looked a bit prettier / more modern than current unstyled HTML. Maybe with a modified doctype or meta tag or something to say "it's OK to render this with nice styling".

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#96

Post by clydethefrog »

sweeneyrod wrote: post #86
holografix wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. Frankly I think the Kardashians are a force for evil. Promoting selfishness, superficiality and female independence through hyper sexual objectification. Why are they so popular? Total mystery to me.

"selfishness, superficiality and female independence" One of these things is not like the others.

I hope this is a case of forgetting the Oxford comma.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#97

Post by Teckla »

fiatjaf wrote: post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

Those who control the web browsers control the Internet. And web browsers have gotten so huge and hyper-complex that only wealthy corporations can afford to enter the market as new players.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#98

Post by fiatjaf »

amelius wrote: post #52
mborch wrote: post #44

The new web needs to be distributed in a privacy-preserving sense. Today, you can't realistically browse the web without getting identified and – generally speaking – geolocated. What we need is a model where you pull information you request from distributed and diverse pools of public domain content.

Yes we need more federated services. Email is a great example. Facebook is a telecommunication medium, which means it should conform to the telecommunications act, which says that there should be a level playing field, and an open network. I guess TBL should best start thinking about the protocols in such open systems.

What about matrix.org?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#99

Post by Drumlin »

fiatjaf wrote: post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

It's called technical 'progress' - as technology progresses, you need bigger and more specialised teams of technicians. It reaches a point where huge entities like governments and corporates are the only groups with enough resources to compete.

It happens everywhere... a constant drive to improve by building on top of layers and layers of abstraction - to the point where even the experts give up and view it as, well, magic.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#100

Post by ue_ »

_yosefk wrote: post #85
fiatjaf wrote: post #68

> "Political advertising online needs transparency and understanding" As if that wasn't a problem outside the web. Defenders of democracies like to dream about "transparency and understanding".

"Defenders of democracies" live in democracies. Defenders of dictatorships and monarchies, from Jeremy Corbyn (who had kind words for Castro) to neoreactionaries, also live in democracies, presumably because they're not actually stupid enough to believe what they say. Democracy is a lesser evil, which many people born into it fail to appreciate because their imagination does not render the greater evils realistically…

>Defenders of dictatorships and monarchies, from Jeremy Corbyn (who had kind words for Castro)

What gives you the impression that Corbyn is against democracy? In fact, he participates in the 'democratic' system of his own party and of the UK. I personally refuse to participate at all in the bourgeois democracy, but that doesn't mean I'm against democracy as a principle.

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