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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#51

Post by crystalPalace »

navs wrote: post #48
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

You can experience a better web. It's not easy though. You'll need to give up a lot. I turn off javascript in Firefox (must it really be done through about:config?). A lot of websites work and I appreciate those sites even more. Gmail still offering a HTML version for example. Then there are those that don't like Youtube. I've had to effectively give it up or find a workaround like youtube-dl and mpv. What does suck…

I recommend NoScript(Firefox plugin) for blanket or selective JS removal from web pages.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#52

Post by amelius »

mborch wrote: post #44

The new web needs to be distributed in a privacy-preserving sense. Today, you can't realistically browse the web without getting identified and – generally speaking – geolocated. What we need is a model where you pull information you request from distributed and diverse pools of public domain content.

Yes we need more federated services. Email is a great example.

Facebook is a telecommunication medium, which means it should conform to the telecommunications act, which says that there should be a level playing field, and an open network.

I guess TBL should best start thinking about the protocols in such open systems.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#53

Post by gkya »

diesal11 wrote: post #46
gkya wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, just that quality content that's worthy of my $$ is mostly produced by bloggers that don't really ask for money. How many sites are there that are as good as LWN? Ad network business is a big balloon soon to explode as the amount of actual customers you get is so little. Guess most advertisers know this but still publish ads because they're not too expensive to not do. When is the last time you willingly clicke…

Advertising isn't just about clicks/conversions. It's also about brand/product exposure.

If the exposure is an ad in a space provided by sth like the deck network, certainly. But otherwise it's not a positive exposure.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#54

Post by icebraining »

mborch wrote: post #44

The new web needs to be distributed in a privacy-preserving sense. Today, you can't realistically browse the web without getting identified and – generally speaking – geolocated. What we need is a model where you pull information you request from distributed and diverse pools of public domain content.

There's Freenet. It's just that nobody uses it.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#55

Post by icebraining »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #38
shakna wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public. Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?

WA makes it possible to replace entire browser runtimes with proprietary stuff. For example, you can compile WebKit to WA, with typography rendering and flow layout on a Web Canvas, and "Save as HTML" and other basic functionality disabled. I find it very irritating that TBL/W3C is promoting this and EME. I think W3C should be seen as what it is - a self-proclaimed standardization company acting in the interest of wh…

You can already do that with plain JS, though: see the Qt rendering engine ported to JS+canvas: http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emsc...

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#56

Post by matt4077 »

white-flame wrote: post #10
yissir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable truth is that even if style-free information-dense content would be better for you, it wouldn't be better for the advertisers that currently fund this content. And nobody is going to pay for this content out of pocket when they can pay for it though the tax of terrible UX and being reduced to a data product bought by businesses. If the web is broken, it's not because of the technology, but the shaky…

The web wasn't built on an economic foundation of ad revenue. The web was built on the economic foundation of both university-provided and personally/privately funded servers. What ad revenue did was wildly expand the number of people trying to exploit the web for revenue, by generating sheer quantity regardless of content. I agree that that's a shaky foundation to base the web on.

I don't think you can just throw out everything produced by professional newspapers as useless content.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#57

Post by matt4077 »

gkya wrote: post #45
simplehuman wrote: post #29

For a start we need to get rid of this ad driven model. But this is not going to happen because people are addicted to free. Its like a drug.

Nope, just that quality content that's worthy of my $$ is mostly produced by bloggers that don't really ask for money. How many sites are there that are as good as LWN? Ad network business is a big balloon soon to explode as the amount of actual customers you get is so little. Guess most advertisers know this but still publish ads because they're not too expensive to not do. When is the last time you willingly clicke…

Do you really want a world without professional journalism? I know it's en vogue to hate the "mainstream" press, but a world without institutions that can be somewhat trusted will be open season for demagogues.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#58

Post by unicornporn »

crystalPalace wrote: post #51
navs wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can experience a better web. It's not easy though. You'll need to give up a lot. I turn off javascript in Firefox (must it really be done through about:config?). A lot of websites work and I appreciate those sites even more. Gmail still offering a HTML version for example. Then there are those that don't like Youtube. I've had to effectively give it up or find a workaround like youtube-dl and mpv. What does suck…

I recommend NoScript(Firefox plugin) for blanket or selective JS removal from web pages.

Browsing with NoScript is fine if you just visit the same websites over and over. If you actually like to _surf_ the web, the experience is reduced to a never ending configuration nightmare. At least that's my experience. Nice in theory, but a terrible UX.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#59

Post by laumars »

yissir wrote: post #9
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

The uncomfortable truth is that even if style-free information-dense content would be better for you, it wouldn't be better for the advertisers that currently fund this content. And nobody is going to pay for this content out of pocket when they can pay for it though the tax of terrible UX and being reduced to a data product bought by businesses. If the web is broken, it's not because of the technology, but the shaky…

You can still have adverts on style free sites:
Then there's paid for promotional content, which is one of the current trends on the web at the moment anyway.

As long as information can be rendered then adverts can be included.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#60

Post by marcus_holmes »

username223 wrote: post #14
myowncrapulence wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of "web" would run perfectly over encrypted networks as well since it would carry much less data. It would solve the problem of cluttered/fluffy web and insecure/easily-surveilled communications. Being realistic though, this would only serve highly functional computer users seeking simplicity and privacy. A lot of internet users view "beautiful" webpages as a display of trustworthiness and importance. And t…

> A lot of internet users view "beautiful" webpages as a display of trustworthiness and importance. Not so much. A lot of web users like simple, predictable pages. Flyout menus spazzing all over the page, giant headers breaking the space bar, and obscure hamburgers hiding useful features just confuse and annoy people who don't know about CSS element blocking.

Those aren't beautiful pages.

We geeks, who can understand the code, decry the complexity of a beautiful page and prefer not to go there. But we're 1% of the audience.

The other 99% are used to equating beauty and style with quality. More style == more quality. Less style == less quality.

The pages we love because of their simplicity don't do well in the mass market because of their simplicity.

I have taken to calling this the "Kardashian Problem" - I don't understand why the Kardashians exist. I am forced to accept that they do exist. Therefore I do not share a worldview with the people who pay money for the Kardashians to exist. The Kardashians are very wealthy, so there are a lot of those people. I am a taste minority, so building things that I like won't make money. I have to build things that the Kardashians would like. I don't understand what they would like, so I must test everything!

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