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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#31

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

wernercd wrote: post #12
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #5

> Imagine that Big Brother scenario extended to the millions of smart devices such as digital thermostats and fire alarms feeding the Internet of Things ecosystem, and you have a problem that could eviscerate the privacy of billions of people, say security experts. Is this anything but opportunistic scare-mongering? "Spy agency own spy tools. Wouldn't it be scary if they used them on you?!?!?"

"Wouldn't it be scary if..." is different than being provably known to do/use/abuse.

I mean, is there any evidence the recent batch of WikiLeaks leaked CIA tools are being misused? As in, any at all?

As far as I'm aware, the only documented case of inappropriate tool use is overly broad selection criteria on legitimate pipelines of information (and related abuse of access to that data) -- the Snowden leaks. That was a doozy with serious constitutional implications.

But that's substantially different than "they're hackin muh TV!" just because the CIA developed the ability to as part of their mission to spy, which I dont believe we've seen evidence of indiscriminate use.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#32

Post by erlehmann_ »

simplehuman wrote: post #29

For a start we need to get rid of this ad driven model. But this is not going to happen because people are addicted to free. Its like a drug.

Wikipedia, university pages, a lot of blogs and imageboards all work without advertising. It is not so much that people are “addicted to free”, it is that the showing of ads is so very easy and profitable. Site operators are to blame here.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#33

Post by shakna »

actuallyalys wrote: post #27
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

There's already a proliferation of minimally styled sites and blogs like this one. There's also a proliferation of tools—particularly static site generators—that are meant for creating that kind of site. Finally, there's a proliferation of browsers that "work on every device and platform." (Admittedly, they're not lightweight, but they're not that bad if the sites are lightweight.) Can you elaborate on what creating…

Static site generators are an interesting case, which can go either way.

Because the site is static, but the creator still wants to be interactive, you tend to get a lot of JavaScript dependencies that fire off a bunch of 3rd party requests instead.

Form handling, comments, user profiles and the like, along with the usual analytics and ads.

The resulting mess can be much heavier.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#34

Post by [deleted] »

Oxitendwe wrote: post #22

If Tim Berners-Lee really wanted to save the web, he wouldn't support DRM in our web standards.[1] It's absolutely disgusting as well that they would argue that "fake news" is somehow a threat to the internet, provide no evidence whatsoever to explain why, and then link to a panel run by a media company considered untrustworthy by about half of American voters.[2] [1] https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/02/on-eme-in-html5/…

[deleted]

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#35

Post by shakna »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #26
Oxitendwe wrote: post #22

If Tim Berners-Lee really wanted to save the web, he wouldn't support DRM in our web standards.[1] It's absolutely disgusting as well that they would argue that "fake news" is somehow a threat to the internet, provide no evidence whatsoever to explain why, and then link to a panel run by a media company considered untrustworthy by about half of American voters.[2] [1] https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/02/on-eme-in-html5/…

Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).

Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public.

Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#36

Post by actuallyalys »

shakna wrote: post #33
actuallyalys wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's already a proliferation of minimally styled sites and blogs like this one. There's also a proliferation of tools—particularly static site generators—that are meant for creating that kind of site. Finally, there's a proliferation of browsers that "work on every device and platform." (Admittedly, they're not lightweight, but they're not that bad if the sites are lightweight.) Can you elaborate on what creating…

Static site generators are an interesting case, which can go either way. Because the site is static, but the creator still wants to be interactive, you tend to get a lot of JavaScript dependencies that fire off a bunch of 3rd party requests instead. Form handling, comments, user profiles and the like, along with the usual analytics and ads. The resulting mess can be much heavier.

That's a good point, although there are many static site generator and theme combinations that don't have that problem, either by not being interactive or by limiting the interactivity to when the creator is editing locally.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#37

Post by Oxitendwe »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #26
Oxitendwe wrote: post #22

If Tim Berners-Lee really wanted to save the web, he wouldn't support DRM in our web standards.[1] It's absolutely disgusting as well that they would argue that "fake news" is somehow a threat to the internet, provide no evidence whatsoever to explain why, and then link to a panel run by a media company considered untrustworthy by about half of American voters.[2] [1] https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/02/on-eme-in-html5/…

Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).

Could you elaborate? I've never heard of web assembly being related to DRM before.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#38

Post by tannhaeuser »

shakna wrote: post #35
tannhaeuser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).

Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public. Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?

WA makes it possible to replace entire browser runtimes with proprietary stuff. For example, you can compile WebKit to WA, with typography rendering and flow layout on a Web Canvas, and "Save as HTML" and other basic functionality disabled. I find it very irritating that TBL/W3C is promoting this and EME. I think W3C should be seen as what it is - a self-proclaimed standardization company acting in the interest of whoever pays the hefty membership bills struggling to keep relevant.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#39

Post by shakna »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #38
shakna wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public. Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?

WA makes it possible to replace entire browser runtimes with proprietary stuff. For example, you can compile WebKit to WA, with typography rendering and flow layout on a Web Canvas, and "Save as HTML" and other basic functionality disabled. I find it very irritating that TBL/W3C is promoting this and EME. I think W3C should be seen as what it is - a self-proclaimed standardization company acting in the interest of wh…

But still, you can inspect that WA code, and WA doesn't have access to the DOM. Inspecting the EME packet is a crime in many jurisdictions, and designed to be difficult.

WA makes sense as what it is intended to do: give a memory efficient alternative to JavaScript in circumstances that warrant it.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#40

Post by tannhaeuser »

Oxitendwe wrote: post #37
tannhaeuser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).

Could you elaborate? I've never heard of web assembly being related to DRM before.

I've replied above and also on the WA thread a couple days ago.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793020

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