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Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

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Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#231

Post by ge96 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #174
ge96 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about the error-check thing. If at least one paid employee had to enter a first-set of data that was 'absolutely correct' before being seen by multiple people online which then 'solidifies' the correct responses. I briefly read about this somewhere but still not sure. I mean it does obviously work in the sense of entering something blatantly not correct is flagged.

Probably no need to have someone seed it. You just show the same image to a thousand people, and if 900 of them answer it one way that's almost certainly the correct answer.

Interesting. I'm inclined to think that this is not good. But it makes sense consensus, just seems to me if everyone is wrong. But the quality-check (seed guy) could be wrong as well.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#234

Post by goodplay »

Klathmon wrote: post #210
goodplay wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I do not believe it is okay to take physical goods or receive services with no payment. I do however believe that people should be free to send and receive any information they wish, regardless of the wishes of the "owner" of said information. Sharing information without the right holder's involvement will not make them loose access to it. If you, as a site owner, don't want people to share information your serve…

I feel this is on topic as it relates to you using Google services without payment. This isn't information sharing, this is using a service which has costs (hardware, software, employee time, power, cooling, etc...). You are using the ReCAPTCHA service. If you don't pay them for that (either in time or in money) then in my opinion you are stealing the cost of that service. Just like how if you got a taxi, then just w…

I disagree that it is stealing because I never agreed (or wanted) to participate in this program. The site owner did.

I'm under no obligation (moral or otherwise) to make honest contributions. If we wanted to continue with your analogy, it'll be like being forced into a taxi, then driven one meter, then forced to pay a large fee because the landlord doesn't want me to walk on his lawn. I didn't choose to ride the taxi. The landlord did (ignoring saner options).

If google wants a revenue from their service, they should consider charging site owners.

If google wants to train their NNs, they'll have to pay people to classify data for them.

If google doesn't want to do either, and doesn't want people like me contributing to their system, don't let site owners allow us to use their site.

Otherwise, I think google should shutdown the service.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#236

Post by Klathmon »

goodplay wrote: post #234
Klathmon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this is on topic as it relates to you using Google services without payment. This isn't information sharing, this is using a service which has costs (hardware, software, employee time, power, cooling, etc...). You are using the ReCAPTCHA service. If you don't pay them for that (either in time or in money) then in my opinion you are stealing the cost of that service. Just like how if you got a taxi, then just w…

I disagree that it is stealing because I never agreed (or wanted) to participate in this program. The site owner did. I'm under no obligation (moral or otherwise) to make honest contributions. If we wanted to continue with your analogy, it'll be like being forced into a taxi, then driven one meter, then forced to pay a large fee because the landlord doesn't want me to walk on his lawn. I didn't choose to ride the tax…

If you really want to keep using the analogy, it's like you going to a restaurant and they require you to take a taxi to the actual location (and tell you the cost upfront), and you just take it then refuse to pay.

You do have the option of not using a service that uses recaptcha. Nobody is forcing you to fill them out, you are making the choice to do it because you want the service the site owner is providing, and the site owner wants recaptcha.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#237

Post by meowface »

new299 wrote: post #154
macrael wrote: post #4

Google using captchas to get humans to read street addresses captured by street view cars to improve maps results remains one of the most Googly things they've ever done. Genius, lateral, and a little weird.

Right, but it was really just an extension of the reCAPTCHA technology. Originally applied only to books. reCAPTCHA was a technology acquired by Google. Not developed in house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA

The founder, Luis von Ahn, later went on to found Duolingo. Duolingo uses a similar "twofer" crowdsourcing strategy.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#238

Post by goodplay »

Klathmon wrote: post #236
goodplay wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it is stealing because I never agreed (or wanted) to participate in this program. The site owner did. I'm under no obligation (moral or otherwise) to make honest contributions. If we wanted to continue with your analogy, it'll be like being forced into a taxi, then driven one meter, then forced to pay a large fee because the landlord doesn't want me to walk on his lawn. I didn't choose to ride the tax…

If you really want to keep using the analogy, it's like you going to a restaurant and they require you to take a taxi to the actual location (and tell you the cost upfront), and you just take it then refuse to pay. You do have the option of not using a service that uses recaptcha. Nobody is forcing you to fill them out, you are making the choice to do it because you want the service the site owner is providing, and t…

Nah, the owner wants to block scrappers.

If a taxi company keeps getting screwed over by patrons of a given restaurant, the company should stop providing service for said patrons, seek compensation directly from the people who require their service (the restaurant), or seek legal action against either the patrons or the restaurant.

Demanding otherwise is just naive.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#239

Post by Ntrails »

Filligree wrote: post #138
Ntrails wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do that not because I want to not be tracked, but because I am bad at computers and don't want to accidentally install a virus because blatting and starting again would be an bunch of effort and it's not like my stuff is backed up or anything. Sometimes though I wonder if I shouldn't turn adblock off, for example, and then I'm at work and some website auto-plays video and I remember .

Imagine, if you will, a scene like this. It is dusk. You are out running in the park, trying to get exercise before the last light fades. Suddenly you realize: A group of people have been closing on you, boxing you in from all sides. You try to run. Your muscles burn, you heave for breath. They match your pace exactly, coming closer... and closer... and closer. You cast your gaze desperately from side to side. Isn't…

GREAT NOW I AM HAVING NIGHTMARES

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#240

Post by wst_ »

eriknstr wrote: post #145
danso wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recaptcha was not a free service. Or if it was, why did Google end up paying millions for it? And it's not free now, unless the engineers and scientists working on it are working pro bono. According to Wikipedia and the New York Times, reCaptcha was not developed for public domain works. Its pilot project was to digitize the NYT archives, archives which were not released to the public domain nor are fully available w…

I had totally forgotten how bad the word mush was. In perspective of this, I agree that we do get something back from doing unpaid work for Google, and that is a HUGELY improved user experience with the current reCAPTCHA like "click all the pictures of sandwiches" or "click the portions of the picture that has a street sign in it" compared to the earlier reCAPTCHA and other CAPTCHA.

Which still makes you work for them. Just, instead of letters, you get a bunch of images to recognize.
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