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Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#481

Post by foo101 »

shiven wrote: post #476
foo101 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this list comes anywhere close to having a baby. None of the items have a 100% probability of causing irreversible life choices. For example, the choice of performing a crime may not end up in conviction, the choice of drunk driving may not end up in a crash, one may not get HIV even after having unprotected sex, one may be able to repay the student loan even after choosing an unoptimal field, etc. But…

But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life! Sure, but you can put your kid up for adoption if you are so deeply affected. I mean, Steve Job's biological mother did, so it is not really a 100% thing.

Let us take it case by case.

Case 1: Have a child. Take care of the child until the child is an adult. It has an irreversible effect on one's lifestyle and schedule. Even after the child has grown up, the parent and the child are still emotionally bonded to varying degree.

Case 2: Have a child. Put the child up for adoption. Once the child is adopted, two cases emerge.

Case 2.1: The adoption lasts life long, thus being irreversible by definition.

Case 2.2: The adoption is reversed, thus bringing the biological parent back to Case 1 and thus facing the irreversible effects of Case 1.

Thus, in all cases, having a child has 100% probability of having life long effects.

I am honestly unable to understand if you are arguing for argument's sake or if you are genuinely trying to make a point. I think most people would agree that issues like having a child or putting a child up for adoption has a 100% probability of serious irreversible effect on one's schedule, lifestyle and emotions than something like high-risk physical activity which has less than 100% of probability of such an irreversible effect.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#483

Post by royletron »

microsage wrote: post #218
royletron wrote: post #165

I do find this whole situation a tiny bit crazy, I often think software engineers are often taken for a complete ride by employers. We shouldn't have to feel like we each have to take responsibility to be up to scratch on the latest tools, we should be encouraged to factor that into our day to day work. I don't think this is a question you should ask yourself, but you should talk to your employer about. I don't see a…

I think this is a pretty distorted worldview. I'm confident most brick-layers would be happy to be taken for this kind of "complete ride by employers" in exchange for the cushy offices, offsite retreats, snacks, beer, endless perks, and $100k+ USD/yr salaries that software engineers tend to get in exchange.

Most developers I know get paid less than national average salary (for the uk) and are expected to deliver above and beyond, with non of the perks you mention (I didn't even get offered 2 weeks paternity pay in my previous job). Please don't get me wrong, I love what I do and I absolutely know how lucky I am to be here, but I just feel for the OP having a weight of expectation that isn't fair in any industry.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#484

Post by royletron »

webmaven wrote: post #474
royletron wrote: post #165

I do find this whole situation a tiny bit crazy, I often think software engineers are often taken for a complete ride by employers. We shouldn't have to feel like we each have to take responsibility to be up to scratch on the latest tools, we should be encouraged to factor that into our day to day work. I don't think this is a question you should ask yourself, but you should talk to your employer about. I don't see a…

Consider that nurses (both RNs and LPNs) have to have a certain number of Continuing Education credits[0] (which means not just learning something, but passing a test) every year in order to renew their license, without which they can't work as a nurse. And yes, they are expected to pay for these courses out of their own pocket, as well as do this studying and test-taking on their own time, even if they have a full-t…

Be mindful my statement was my opinion, not factual. I am completely aware there are people screwed over a lot more than software developers, and I know how fortunate we are to do what we do. I am just making the point that normalising the expectation of constant self learning is fairly unique in this industry as the defacto standard for employees.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#486

Post by infinite8s »

webmaven wrote: post #456
johnwheeler wrote: post #383

I'm 38 with three kids: 2 year old twins and a 5 year old. During that time, I've done a lot on my own, and I feel I've had more than enough time to accomplish more. I've taught myself Swift and Cocoa: https://github.com/johnwheeler/CocoaProgramming released open source frameworks: https://github.com/johnwheeler/flask-ask https://github.com/johnwheeler/flask-live-starter and have had plenty of time to pursue interest…

What is your perspective on having kids a bit later in life than most?

Is that later than most? Most of the people in my professional peer group who are my age (similar to GP) have children of a similar age.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#487

Post by [deleted] »

foo101 wrote: post #479
shiven wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criteria was "reversibility", not societal acceptance. Also, "having children" is not "considered good" by society in 100% of cases. We'd never have Roe v Wade if that were the case. I think you are building a bit of a straw man there.

I don't see how Roe v Wade contradicts the claim that "having children" is "considered good". Roe v Wade is about abortion, i.e. a situation that applies to unwanted pregnancy, something we are not discussing in this thread. When we say "having children", I thought it is understood that we are talking about planned/wanted pregnancy with planned parenthood.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#488

Post by shiven »

foo101 wrote: post #481
shiven wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life! Sure, but you can put your kid up for adoption if you are so deeply affected. I mean, Steve Job's biological mother did, so it is not really a 100% thing.

Let us take it case by case. Case 1: Have a child. Take care of the child until the child is an adult. It has an irreversible effect on one's lifestyle and schedule. Even after the child has grown up, the parent and the child are still emotionally bonded to varying degree. Case 2: Have a child. Put the child up for adoption. Once the child is adopted, two cases emerge. Case 2.1: The adoption lasts life long, thus bei…

I think I've made my point :-)

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#489

Post by taf2 »

Kids can be a great motivator, and to me it sounds like you got advice from people without kids... read up on cray computer...

Not saying this makes him a good father but legend says he would have the kids remain quiet during family trips because he was designing the chips while driving... it might have the story here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#490

Post by notburnt »

eduren wrote: post #312
notburnt wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean unfounded opinion has to be respected or borne just because. Too many things people say are "just because I think so" without much thinking going into why or how they came to that conclusion. So, maybe calling out baselessly opinionated people is ok? As an aside, seems like the response was in the same tone as the parent's comment.

I agree that the tone is the same in both cases. >So, maybe calling out baselessly opinionated people is ok? Of course it's okay. But call them out by saying they're wrong/baseless/uninformed, not by dismissing their "right to an opinion".

I read it as: "your opinion is wrong because you don't seem to have the requisite experience".

And, in such cases, I don't think people can be allowed hide behind the "right to an opinion". If you think about it, this is the source of "alternate facts".

But, hey, that's just my opinion :)

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