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Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#471

Post by webmaven »

randlet wrote: post #466
webmaven wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having them in your lap during a conference call is over the line imo. You do understand that sometimes the alternative to the kid sitting quietly in their parent's lap is the kid screaming their head off on the other side of the home office door, right? Personally, I'll take the kid sitting in the parent's lap as being the lesser by far of two annoyances, thanks.

"screaming their head off on the other side of the home office door" Whoever is looking after the child should not be allowing them to sit outside the office door and scream! If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls (except under emergency situations e.g. sick kid + critical call).

> If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls

Right, so only people in two-caregiver households get to work from home. Got it.

Everybody up and down this thread who is assuming that there even is another caregiver needs to check their privilege.

I am not a parent myself, but I have been on conference calls where a colleague tried to keep a child out of their home office for a few minutes (like, for the part of the call when it was their turn to give an update) and it blew up in their face. Just let the kid sit in your lap already, it's fine.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#472

Post by foo101 »

shiven wrote: post #464
foo101 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide us a list of those 12 other irreversible life choices that you can count? I am genuinely cuious to know what other such life choices are there that I need to be careful about.

"Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a hig…

I don't think this list comes anywhere close to having a baby. None of the items have a 100% probability of causing irreversible life choices. For example, the choice of performing a crime may not end up in conviction, the choice of drunk driving may not end up in a crash, one may not get HIV even after having unprotected sex, one may be able to repay the student loan even after choosing an unoptimal field, etc.

But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life!

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#473

Post by pm90 »

shiven wrote: post #464
foo101 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide us a list of those 12 other irreversible life choices that you can count? I am genuinely cuious to know what other such life choices are there that I need to be careful about.

"Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a hig…

All of the choices you mention are considered as harmful by society; in contrast to having children which is considered good.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#474

Post by webmaven »

royletron wrote: post #165

I do find this whole situation a tiny bit crazy, I often think software engineers are often taken for a complete ride by employers. We shouldn't have to feel like we each have to take responsibility to be up to scratch on the latest tools, we should be encouraged to factor that into our day to day work. I don't think this is a question you should ask yourself, but you should talk to your employer about. I don't see a…

Consider that nurses (both RNs and LPNs) have to have a certain number of Continuing Education credits[0] (which means not just learning something, but passing a test) every year in order to renew their license, without which they can't work as a nurse.

And yes, they are expected to pay for these courses out of their own pocket, as well as do this studying and test-taking on their own time, even if they have a full-time job as a nurse.

[0] eg. http://www.westernschools.com/

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#475

Post by shiven »

pm90 wrote: post #473
shiven wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a hig…

All of the choices you mention are considered as harmful by society; in contrast to having children which is considered good.

The criteria was "reversibility", not societal acceptance.

Also, "having children" is not "considered good" by society in 100% of cases. We'd never have Roe v Wade if that were the case. I think you are building a bit of a straw man there.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#476

Post by shiven »

foo101 wrote: post #472
shiven wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a hig…

I don't think this list comes anywhere close to having a baby. None of the items have a 100% probability of causing irreversible life choices. For example, the choice of performing a crime may not end up in conviction, the choice of drunk driving may not end up in a crash, one may not get HIV even after having unprotected sex, one may be able to repay the student loan even after choosing an unoptimal field, etc. But…

But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life!

Sure, but you can put your kid up for adoption if you are so deeply affected. I mean, Steve Job's biological mother did, so it is not really a 100% thing.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#477

Post by randlet »

webmaven wrote: post #471
randlet wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"screaming their head off on the other side of the home office door" Whoever is looking after the child should not be allowing them to sit outside the office door and scream! If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls (except under emergency situations e.g. sick kid + critical call).

> If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls Right, so only people in two-caregiver households get to work from home. Got it. Everybody up and down this thread who is assuming that there even is another caregiver needs to check their privilege. I am not a parent myself, but I have been on conference calls where a colleague tried to keep a child out of their home office for a few minutes…

Sorry but I don't believe you can look after your kid all day and work from home at the same time. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of practicality. If you have a full time job, you need childcare whether you work in your home or out of it. I don't think that's particularly controversial.

edit: If it lends any weight to my opinion, I guess I could also point out I work from home and that that despite your assumption I've been the only parent for two children <= 5 years old for the last 9 weeks.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#478

Post by whynotmaybe »

It's possible to skill up, I do it by using public transport for +-50min a day and asking everybody in the house to be quiet after 8PM and leave me alone, a few times per month.

Why only a few times per month ? Because most of the time my brain's too tired to function properly and it's wiser to empty it with netflix than getting pissed off on your family.

It's true that there aren't many green boxes on my github, but it's not my main income, it's on the side. I do it for fun !

Advice for anyone willing to skill up with kids : - discuss this with your SO. Your SO can understand this and accommodate some time for you. (Some time) - discuss this with your kids when they're old enough to understand. - work by small increment

You cover both extreme of the argument with "I argued many good programmers have family with kids and still manage to keep up. They brushed me off saying it's just not possible or they don't look after their kids.", .

Some are super humans and can do everything, some think that they must forget who they are because of their kids and put their lives in PAUSE for 20yrs. ALL the others try to balance their life.

You don't stop training because you have kids, you don't stop watching movies because you have kids, you don't stop going out because you have kids. They become an important part of your life, just a part, not your whole life.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#479

Post by foo101 »

shiven wrote: post #475
pm90 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the choices you mention are considered as harmful by society; in contrast to having children which is considered good.

The criteria was "reversibility", not societal acceptance. Also, "having children" is not "considered good" by society in 100% of cases. We'd never have Roe v Wade if that were the case. I think you are building a bit of a straw man there.

I don't see how Roe v Wade contradicts the claim that "having children" is "considered good". Roe v Wade is about abortion, i.e. a situation that applies to unwanted pregnancy, something we are not discussing in this thread. When we say "having children", I thought it is understood that we are talking about planned/wanted pregnancy with planned parenthood.
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