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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#531

Post by averageweather »

467568985476 wrote: post #462
closeparen wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York's public transit commuters have some of the worst commute times in the country, at 7.5-11 hours/week (45 minutes each way on the low end). For LA's drivers, even 37 minutes is pretty bad. [1] Public transit mitigates the environmental and public safety effects of traffic, but the "wasting your life in a slow-moving vehicle" problem is much worse with public transit (even rail). And no, that time is not reusa…

I completely disagree about the reusability of time. I live in Boston and my commute on the train is only about 20 minutes, but that's plenty of time to read a few pages or catch up on the news. I see plenty of commuters reading books as well, so I'm definitely not a special case. Reading a book while standing on a crowded train is not that hard...

I took the commenter to mean getting work done. Like, your long commute isn't made up by the fact you can sit and code on the train ... because odds are you can't sit. I actually now live outside Boston and good luck getting a seat on the commuter rail to do real work, unless you live far out on an early stop.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#532

Post by tracker1 »

Neeek wrote: post #504
closeparen wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York's public transit commuters have some of the worst commute times in the country, at 7.5-11 hours/week (45 minutes each way on the low end). For LA's drivers, even 37 minutes is pretty bad. [1] Public transit mitigates the environmental and public safety effects of traffic, but the "wasting your life in a slow-moving vehicle" problem is much worse with public transit (even rail). And no, that time is not reusa…

I'm going to have to disagree with the "wasting your life in a slow-moving vehicle" comment. I'd rather spend an hour and a half on a bus to work where I can take calls and work from my laptop/read a book/nap or whatever, than spend 45 minutes sitting in and/or dodging traffic where I am getting NOTHING done. Granted, if the bus is packed it can be difficult or impossible to get anything useful done also.

I get motion sickness, and have a hyper-sensitive sense of smell.. I'd rather be in my car enjoying music and/or taking calls. Also, I happen to like about a half hour or so of driving, as it is enough distraction to let work thoughts fall away.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#533

Post by pekk »

bootloop wrote: post #442
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

I don't know. I am from europe and visited a few north american cities in the past, including LA. No or bad public transport was the norm but LA was a whole other level. You get out of the airport and there is a endless line of car rental places after each other. That makes it clear to you that you won't get far without a car. Going into the city or out takes you on a ridiculous wide highway which is basically a perm…

Every large city has car rental places by the airport. That is where they are. It doesn't signify. I'm sure there are people who wouldn't like to visit your home town either.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#534

Post by sampo »

justinmc wrote: post #493
logfromblammo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When dreaming up new ways to tax cars, please bear in mind that wear on roadways from vehicles is proportional to miles driven times per-axle weight to the fourth power . A gas tax is already proportional to miles driven times vehicle weight times a fuel efficiency factor. Congestion, on the other hand, is a more difficult thing. Vehicle length certainly plays a factor, as well as width, acceleration, and braking dis…

Do you have a source for your roadway wear formula? Just interested to read more.

If you just google something like 'per-axle weight to the fourth power' you find lots of sources.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#535

Post by taternuts »

Neliquat wrote: post #303
taternuts wrote: post #98

I moved to LA about a year ago from DC, where the traffic is notoriously bad as well, and I have to say that LA traffic is leaps and bounds worse. I've never seen gridlock like this where you literally DO NOT MOVE. In DC, you'll move maybe a couple inches here and there, maybe average 2-5 MPH in a gridlock. Here, you sit completely still. When you're up to turn left, there's not even room to turn in because everyone…

>delivery services So you are paying make it worse for everyone but you. Brilliant.

It's either me or them on the road so I don't see how it's making anything any worse.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#536

Post by rtpg »

reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

According to Google Maps[0], driving 15 miles through Tokyo (going through several high-traffic areas) seems to take 1h15.

Agreed that if businesses aren't properly spread out, then rush hour traffic will always be bad. What else can you expect if your city effectively shrinks to 1/10th its size every day at 9 AM and 6 PM?

[0]:https://goo.gl/maps/YSwaooCWK3y

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#537

Post by erispoe »

bootloop wrote: post #442
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

I don't know. I am from europe and visited a few north american cities in the past, including LA. No or bad public transport was the norm but LA was a whole other level. You get out of the airport and there is a endless line of car rental places after each other. That makes it clear to you that you won't get far without a car. Going into the city or out takes you on a ridiculous wide highway which is basically a perm…

LA is actually very suitable for public transit: it's a city with multiple, reasonably dense urban centers. The greater LA as a whole is also pretty dense, denser than NY metro area. And the city is investing like crazy in new transit infrastructure. Give it 20 years and, at least in the central parts of LA metro, it will be much more convenient to move by transit.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#538

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #443
xenihn wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour It takes thirty minutes to go a mile in traffic where I'm at (West LA, near Brentwood and Santa Monica). Then an hour to go 5 miles in any direction on the 10 or 405. It's really bad.

I just moved to LA (westwood) from Beijing last August. The traffic here is so light in LA compared to Beijing, and the air is really clean as well. In Beijing, it could take me a couple of hours to get home on 4th ring, 3rd ring was worse! And the traffic didn't disappear at 7PM, maybe 8 or 9.

[deleted]

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#539

Post by ojii »

rtpg wrote: post #536
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

According to Google Maps[0], driving 15 miles through Tokyo (going through several high-traffic areas) seems to take 1h15. Agreed that if businesses aren't properly spread out, then rush hour traffic will always be bad. What else can you expect if your city effectively shrinks to 1/10th its size every day at 9 AM and 6 PM? [0]: https://goo.gl/maps/YSwaooCWK3y

Or half an hour with public transport (your route).

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#540

Post by Ryxax »

Any Houstonian can tell you this is a lie. We have HOV lanes (HOT lanes) which often move at slower speeds than regular lanes because minimum speed limits are not enforceable. You might remember a man getting arrested for driving with his son on a riding lawnmower in a HOV lane before the Super Bowl. Frequently, I've been stuck behind hybrid car drivers who don't want to exceed a certain speed to improve their gas mileage or tourists pointing out landmarks to passengers.

Regular toll roads don't work either. They'll sell you on the idea that they can build more roads by charging drivers who use them. But the tolls never go away. Houston's toll roads have paid for themselves many times over yet toll prices only increase. Once the government has a source of revenue, they'll never let it go.

Across the US, cities are gentrifying, increasing taxes to push the poor people out allowing developers to rebuild neighborhoods, increase the property value, and then resell for profit. This means poor people have to commute into the city for work congesting the roads. Building toll roads just hurts them more.

If you want to cure traffic congestion make inner cities affordable again.

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