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Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

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Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#81

Post by 4WIW »

bendoernberg wrote: post #72
synicalx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah right, because catching a bus is the same as staring down a tank. Literally the bravest thing I've ever heard. How about next time you have a problem with the way a company does business, you just don't use that company's services? Or is that not enough for you? You have to march around HN and tell everyone else what they should be doing in order to appease you?

I think an honest reading of my comment would reveal that I was providing a range of actions that people can engage in that require some level of sacrifice in service of a collective goal. My point was that on this spectrum, switching six-figure software engineering jobs (for most people not in an emergency situation or supporting a family of 9 etc) is not very much to ask when it has the potential to shift the indus…

"collective goal"? What's that, and what collective do you represent here?

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#82

Post by 4WIW »

goseeastarwar wrote: post #16
jimmywanger wrote: post #10

I think it bears repeating that there has been no hard evidence turned up in any of this. Even the single non-anonymous story doesn't have any corroborating evidence or records, and the charges of "investigation" and "harassment" have been only reported by the original reporter of the story. The fallout has been that somebody has been let go after non-substantiated rumors about his activities at a previous employer,…

We need to stop doing this in every thread. These women are taking huge risks by speaking publicly and asking for proof is insulting to say the least.

I agree with you about the bravery of women who came out with their stories and thank them for stirring this public discussion.

However in the context of TFA, the campaign to make Uber employees quit is an _action_, and it still based on accusations (however credible they may sound). This sounds a whole lot like a witch hunt. In enlightened modern-day Silicon Valley, that is.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#83

Post by jimmywanger »

goseeastarwar wrote: post #67
flukus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence Yes, because it would be nice to know if it really was a systemic issue before wasting time and energy fixing it. "It's totally an issue, trust me" isn't worth acting on.

How many accounts of harassment do you need to believe there's a problem, out of curiosity? Nearly every woman in the industry has a story to tell, most say nothing. You'd know that if you'd bother to speak to any.

> How many accounts of harassment do you need to believe there's a problem, out of curiosity?

How many accounts of the effectiveness of homeopathy do you need to believe that it works, out of curiosity?

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#84

Post by malandrew »

bendoernberg wrote: post #80
synicalx wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is acceptable to call people on their moral failings, but their working at Uber isn't a moral failing - it's a job. When BP spewed oil all over the ocean, did you track down their employees and point out what horrible people they were? Or how about Yahoo, when they acknowledged their breach and admitted doing nothing about it for years, did you demand that everyone at Yahoo jump ship?

People who help BP drill for oil when they could be making a perfectly fine living doing something else are contributing to, potentially, the end of human life on this planet. If that is not an immoral act, what is?

Have you ever considered the importance of energy?

It's literally the primary bounding function restricting human activity. Everything requires energy. It heats our home. It moves our goods. It moves us. It drives our machinery. Every human activity requires energy.

A higher cost of energy disproportionally hurts the poor. Rising energy prices plunges millions into poverty.

That said, it sucks that we're currently heavily dependent on oil for energy, and we should move away from oil for many of our energy needs. Drilling for oil isn't the problem. Not having an economically competitive alternative is the problem. The only real solution for moving away from oil is helping make alternative energy solutions economically competitive with oil.

If you're anti-oil before we have economically competitive solutions, you're contributing to poverty and suffering for millions upon millions of people all over the planet. If that is not an immoral act, what is?

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#85

Post by kristianc »

jimmywanger wrote: post #64
kristianc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof That phrase was originally invoked to describe telekinesis. I'm not sure 'Silicon Valley company has problem with female employees' falls into that category.

Comparing the claims that have been made to be equivalent to 'Silicon Valley company has problem with female employees' is like saying that the maiden voyage of the Titanic did not go as planned, or Michael Jordan was a pretty good basketball player. Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is som…

> Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is something entirely else.

Like the one alleged to have existed at GitHub?

Maybe such a pattern in SV is not so 'extraordinary' after all.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#86

Post by tomp »

kristianc wrote: post #85
jimmywanger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the claims that have been made to be equivalent to 'Silicon Valley company has problem with female employees' is like saying that the maiden voyage of the Titanic did not go as planned, or Michael Jordan was a pretty good basketball player. Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is som…

> Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is something entirely else. Like the one alleged to have existed at GitHub? Maybe such a pattern in SV is not so 'extraordinary' after all.

GitHub is a very good example. Whatever happened there, was probably not sexual discrimination.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#87

Post by tomp »

Moru wrote: post #14
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #3

So much is happening so fast in the name of bad publicity directed at Uber. Is anyone else cynically suspecting a coordinated hit? I don't doubt there's a toxic culture with real problems present. But the timing and sustained pressure of all this media attention seems a little... suspicious. I also think back to the anonymously written Medium piece after the first one [1]. There is literally no way to verify this, an…

This is a big problem for a lot of women even in todays IT companies. The high difference between male and female salary and number of employees is not because males are smarter. It has a lot more to do with how the females get treated already in school, and this continues all the way until most have stopped dreaming and told all their friends to stay away.

"Females" seem to get treated pretty well in school, given that they finish it much more often than men.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#88

Post by lazyloop »

uberino wrote: post #77

I'm an Uber engineer. I've been here several years. I'm not going to comment on any recent news, but I do have something very important to say that I've yet to see anyone else voice. What frustrates me most about people are hell bent on painting a wildly successful company in the worst light possible is that doing so has very serious negative implications for equality and opportunity for women and other groups that a…

These are the words of a man who contributed to the very problem that Uber is facing, and who is now scared that his vested equity will not be worth anything. Perhaps Uber should start fixing problems, instead of blaming minorities for not having a thicker skin. Wishing for minorities to invade Uber and fix all problems for you is delusional at best.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#89

Post by dyu »

uberino wrote: post #77

I'm an Uber engineer. I've been here several years. I'm not going to comment on any recent news, but I do have something very important to say that I've yet to see anyone else voice. What frustrates me most about people are hell bent on painting a wildly successful company in the worst light possible is that doing so has very serious negative implications for equality and opportunity for women and other groups that a…

Uber is not the only unicorn. There are others. Maybe by convincing these women and other under-represented to join others, they can actually become more productive and bring more value.

Your logic seems to say, back in 2008, we shouldn't have badmouthed Big Banks, because they were paying above-market rates to their employees, and these salaries would have trickled down back to the society and solved the subprime mortgage crisis.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#90

Post by aasseer »

uberino wrote: post #77

I'm an Uber engineer. I've been here several years. I'm not going to comment on any recent news, but I do have something very important to say that I've yet to see anyone else voice. What frustrates me most about people are hell bent on painting a wildly successful company in the worst light possible is that doing so has very serious negative implications for equality and opportunity for women and other groups that a…

I don't think it's about opportunities, it's about what impact it's making to this world, is Uber worth existing? Is it really making the world any better? Is it even irreplaceable? Or it's just a toxic company trying to suck every bit from the world with a fake mask of "sharing economy"? With racism and sexism?
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