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Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

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Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#761

Post by Razengan »

hvidgaard wrote: post #642
Razengan wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Option+Up? Nope that selects the next folder up. Control+Up? No, that made all of my windows do something weird that I don't know what that is. Ah, it's Command+Up. In macOS, generally: ⌘ Command = App-specific shortcuts. The primary modifier key. ⌃ Control = Global shortcuts. App-specific shortcuts will not generally have Control as the sole modifier. ⌥ Option/Alt = Something to with the keyboard, selection, or se…

The complaint is that Apple software tend to be throughly lacking in the discoverability part of their UI. It is especially bad on iOS.

Which issues are you specifically referring to?

macOS has demonstrably more discoverability than Windows; Not only are shortcuts consistent across all apps, but the visuals of common UI elements are the same as well, so a new user will immediately know what does what, in different apps. Whereas on Windows, you have a multitude of menu, button, scrollbar etc. styles right out of the box, in Microsoft's own apps!

macOS also has a list of all mouse/trackpad gestures — complete with videos — in System Preferences. Likewise, all global keyboard shortcuts are visible in one place as well (Keyboard preferences, where you can modify and even create your own shortcuts for ANY app.)

Best of all however, you can click on the Help menu and just type the name of a command or action that you expect an app to have (for example a filter in an image editor) but don't know its shortcut or which menu it's under, and the unified menu bar subsystem will automatically highlight all matching menu items and their shortcuts for you:

http://i.imgur.com/HNUNqpN.png

Here in that screenshot I wondered about the ability to copy a folder or file's pathname, and the Help Search pointed it out to me! And it works in EVERY macOS app! Does Windows have anything which comes close to aiding in discoverability like that?

I will concede your point on iOS, however.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#762

Post by kartickv »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #685
kartickv wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, and it's because of the status quo bias. When an alternative is proposed, people look at what they lose, and since we don't like loss, we say, "No, I don't want that". Thought experiment: say Macs had USB-C for 10 years, and the latest Macbooks switched to MagSafe. There'd be a lot of complaints about Apple locking us in to their walled garden, and how we have to buy a proprietary overpriced charger now,…

> Thought experiment: say Macs had USB-C for 10 years, and the latest Macbooks switched to MagSafe. Then you would presumably still be able to use the remaining USB-C ports to charge it, with the MagSafe merely an option. That would not get many complaints. If they violated that they would deserve the complaints.

No, in this thought experiment, when they have MagSafe, they charge only via MagSafe.

The thought experiment is intended to be the same as reality, just in the opposite direction.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#763

Post by randiantech »

Cowicide wrote: post #72
randiantech wrote: post #12

Yeah, as a MBP 15 owner, Im sure my next in home computer will be a Windows 10. In my MBP, Bootcamp with w10 works much faster than OSX.

What's faster, specifically? I'm running both and they're both equally snappy even though the macOS has superior functionality with Mission Control, etc. compared to Windows half-baked, recent copy of the functionality.

Open multiple browsers; multiple IDEs (heavy ones like IntelliJ IDEA and Eclipse); in general the directory explorer I feel it more responsive. Is not that OSX is slow at all, but W10 truly surprised me.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#764

Post by Dylan16807 »

kartickv wrote: post #762
Dylan16807 wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thought experiment: say Macs had USB-C for 10 years, and the latest Macbooks switched to MagSafe. Then you would presumably still be able to use the remaining USB-C ports to charge it, with the MagSafe merely an option. That would not get many complaints. If they violated that they would deserve the complaints.

No, in this thought experiment, when they have MagSafe, they charge only via MagSafe. The thought experiment is intended to be the same as reality, just in the opposite direction.

That's what my last sentence is for. If they go pure-magsafe and get rid of all USB-C charging ability then they deserve the complaints.

But if they add magsafe while also having USB-C charging then it's much better than either option on its own.

And keeping USB-C charging does not require extra ports, because you need the USB-C ports anyway to do USB stuff.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#765

Post by kalleboo »

glogla wrote: post #742
kalleboo wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and this gets laggy on bigger resolutions or on older devices or devices without dedicated GPU I have the original 2012 rMBP, which by all accounts has far too wimpy a GPU for retina, and I've been running it in the max scaled resolution (the 1900x1200@2x mode) since the day I bought it. On first few versions of OS X after it was released, yes, the graphics often got very choppy (especially stuff like Expose), but…

Interesting. You have 15", based on resolution? It might be different but my 2013 13" is definitely laggy on max resolution.

Yeah, the first generation was 15" only.

Interesting that later hardware was actually laggier. I even keep my machine stuck on the Intel 4000 graphics 99% of the time.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#766

Post by kartickv »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #764
kartickv wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in this thought experiment, when they have MagSafe, they charge only via MagSafe. The thought experiment is intended to be the same as reality, just in the opposite direction.

That's what my last sentence is for. If they go pure-magsafe and get rid of all USB-C charging ability then they deserve the complaints. But if they add magsafe while also having USB-C charging then it's much better than either option on its own. And keeping USB-C charging does not require extra ports, because you need the USB-C ports anyway to do USB stuff.

The question isn't whether they deserve the complaints, or about the minutae of charging, but whether people think that going from X -> Y is bad and going from Y -> X is also bad. If so, they're just being change-averse: ignore them.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#767

Post by tajen »

chongli wrote: post #658
tajen wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder what's happening inside the company, because Apple's lawyers make the company so secretive that we don't know much about it. Do employees read HN? Do they collect reports about what the consumers are asking for and send it up the management chain? Do they knowingly choose to ignore it? or do they actually believe the Emoticon Macbook is the future? or do employees feel dismayed that their management p…

I really wonder what's happening inside the company If I had to take a wild guess, they've been going stir crazy waiting for the new HQ to be built. From what I know, they've got a lot of employees crammed in lots of temporary offices. They may also have temporarily slowed hiring. All of that could add up to multiple problems all over the company. Like a skeleton crew struggling to get the ship back to port for refit…

That means there is a great hope for a improvement in the future. Thank you for making me positive!

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#768

Post by gx »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #559
gx wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wholly agree with you -- in fact I think we're at a turning point in smartphones catching up to being full fledged computers. I've written some thoughts about this previously, if you would care for a detailed elaboration: https://guan.sg/apples-2017/

Thanks, that is a nice write up. I especially like "Imagine a world where the way desktops are meant to function is by plugging your ultraportable into any available set of peripherals: monitor, keyboard and mouse. The interchangeablity and convenience of that, necessarily implies that the brand and type of monitor / keyboard / mouse you plug your ultraportable into doesn’t matter, as long as they’re technically comp…

Thanks! Would love to read, if you have a link!

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#769

Post by Dylan16807 »

kartickv wrote: post #766
Dylan16807 wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what my last sentence is for. If they go pure-magsafe and get rid of all USB-C charging ability then they deserve the complaints. But if they add magsafe while also having USB-C charging then it's much better than either option on its own. And keeping USB-C charging does not require extra ports, because you need the USB-C ports anyway to do USB stuff.

The question isn't whether they deserve the complaints, or about the minutae of charging, but whether people think that going from X -> Y is bad and going from Y -> X is also bad. If so, they're just being change-averse: ignore them.

In general it's a good thing to think about.

But you were using it to make an argument that the complaints were invalid.

So I'm going to reply to that specific argument, by pointing out that when Apple changes the IO ports to USB-C and enables USB charging, it does not require them to remove the magsafe port.

In other words, apple went X -> Y. But adding Y reused IO ports and could have coexisted with X. Even though Y might be better than X, it was a false dichotomy in the first place.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#770

Post by rerx »

saghm wrote: post #241
dualogy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UI remains a convoluted Escher'esque nightmare. Totally disagree. I hopped from OS to OS for over a decade every other year or 3 (Win, OSX, Linuxes with various DMs/WMs) and it's always, always an adjustment period from "WTF is this" to "totally productive with this now", usually a matter of 1-2 weeks. Happy with Fedora/Gnome right now but have to say just Explorer itself beats Finder and Nautilus (rebranded as…

Linux file explorers (Nautilus, etc.) aren't exactly a pleasure to use, but then again, as a Linux user, if I have to open a GUI to do something with my files, I'm usually not happy about it in the first place.

Dolphin is pretty nice!

It also has a well integrated terminal with directory tracking, so it is straightforward to switch between command line and graphical operations.

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