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UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

latimes.com

61–70 of 95 posts

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#61
post #59

> Her own child was turned down by her top three UC choices two years ago, despite SAT scores and a grade point average above the 90th percentile. Her daughter ended up at a fourth UC campus. Why not simply follows Texas' Top 10% Rule [1] ? > The law guarantees Texas students who graduated in the top ten percent of their high school class automatic admission to all state-funded universities This top 10% rule, (in con…

because there's too many people in california to do that.

there is a similar heuristic in place, but of course, the top 3 UC's is the same for everyone (berkeley, LA, SD)

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/califor...

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#62
post #8
post #2

> The proposed limit on students from other states and countries — which would be the first ever for the 10-campus public research university — comes after a scathing state audit last year found that UC was hurting California students by admitting too many out-of-state applicants. UC President Janet Napolitano has blasted those findings as unfair and unwarranted, but state lawmakers are requiring that UC adopt a poli…

The state is able to make funding contingent. The state doesn't want to own up to the fact that UC is so underfunded that its struggling to fulfill its purpose of educating Californians. To get more money, UC turns to admitting more students who can pay full price. So the solution by lawmakers is to solve the symptom (too few students from California) rather than the problem (not enough money to support lots of in-st…

The UC system spends $120K/year per student, roughly 10x the tuition and fees a California resident will pay to attend.

The UC system also has an absurdly high ratio of administrative staff to academic staff, and administrative staff to undergraduates. It has become something of a jobs program for the state of California, and is the third-largest employer of a state that is the 6th-largest economy in the world.

Something has to give.

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#63
post #51

The review that was done awhile ago showed that nonresidents reduced the amount of residents in the program, any attempt to merely walk-over the issue is a sign that you are lying and speaking in poor faith. As if there never was any negative set of circumstances that could be predicated fundamentally on the idea that did in people from here , all that talk, and all that pretense when you rap to just your favorite mu…

>The review that was done awhile ago showed that nonresidents reduced the amount of residents in the program Cf. what the audit actually found: >The audit found that out-of-state applicants benefited from lowered admission standards [italics mine], while California students increasingly were turned away from their campus of choice. The only reason to give out-of-state students lower admission standards than in-state…

Could an in-state student pay the out-of-state tuition to also benefit from the lowered admission standards?

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#64
post #56
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because nonresident admissions don't reduce the absolute number of Californians the system can support! They pay much more in tuition than the UC spends on their education, and much of the remainder gets spent on in-state residents. In-state admissions have fallen at highly competitive schools like UCLA not because out-of-state students are taking up more of a set number of spots, but because the amount of in-…

Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution would be to just increase state funding AND cap out-of-state admit rates. It's very hard for Berkeley and UCLA to stay competitive with Stanford and Caltech (and the Ivy League) when their private counterparts not only offer better financial aid for at-need low…

"it basically screws California taxpayers"

It does literally the opposite. Out of state people are a net money gain, not a net money loss.

The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept.

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The school and in-state population have a conflict of interests Is it that clear that they do? For out-of-state students who leave after graduating, in-state students gained a broader network contact. For those who settle in California, the economy and tax base just grew.

Uhhh yes? The schools have only so many spots. In-state students who don't get an acceptance letter receive no benefit when some rich kid from another state or country gets in. The in-state student ends up going to a lesser school and they're worse off for it. The rich kid gets a top tier education and quite likely returns home after graduating. So yeah. There's absolutely a conflict of interests. I'm surprised this…

"The schools have only so many spots"

Thats not true. This number is not static.

Accepting more out of staters INCREASES the total number of slots for in-staters. Because now the university has more money to increase its total size.

Out of staters are a net money gain.

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#68
post #56
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because nonresident admissions don't reduce the absolute number of Californians the system can support! They pay much more in tuition than the UC spends on their education, and much of the remainder gets spent on in-state residents. In-state admissions have fallen at highly competitive schools like UCLA not because out-of-state students are taking up more of a set number of spots, but because the amount of in-…

Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution would be to just increase state funding AND cap out-of-state admit rates. It's very hard for Berkeley and UCLA to stay competitive with Stanford and Caltech (and the Ivy League) when their private counterparts not only offer better financial aid for at-need low…

> Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work.

From the article I gathered that's exactly what they're doing right now, and it's working great. But the optics are bad for politics so they have to ruin it.

UC spokeswoman Dianne Klein said the proposed policy balanced the needs of California students with the benefits those outside students bring — diverse perspectives as well as millions in additional tuition revenue, which added up to nearly $550 million in 2016-17. Those dollars have helped UC increase its enrollment of California students to historical highs this year, Klein said, even as state support per UC student has fallen to less than half of what it was two decades ago.

Klein said the extra dollars from nonresidents — who pay about $27,000 more in annual tuition than Californians — have helped campuses recruit and retain faculty, add courses to lower overall class sizes, and purchase library materials, instructional equipment and technology. The nonresident revenue also has boosted financial aid for Californians by an average $700 per student, she said.

UCLA Chancellor Gene Block said the nonresident dollars provided a lifeline for the campus after state support for undergraduate education dropped significantly after the 2008 recession. Thanks to the extra money, UCLA was able to add courses, which has helped students shorten the time needed to graduate to less than four years.

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#69
post #14
post #12

A couple of important notes FTA: 1) the cap is currently not limiting for the system as a whole, as the proportion is around 16% 2) It also includes a per-campus 20% cap, with raised caps for campuses that are already above 20%. So Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD will be prevented from raising their nonresident proportions, and new growth will be redirected to schools like Merced (only 1% nonresident students). My personal…

That's because nonresident admissions don't reduce the absolute number of Californians the system can support! They pay much more in tuition than the UC spends on their education, and much of the remainder gets spent on in-state residents. In-state admissions have fallen at highly competitive schools like UCLA not because out-of-state students are taking up more of a set number of spots, but because the amount of in-…

>Declining admit rates of in-state students is a problem, but out-of-state students are part of the solution. I really, really hope this proposal doesn't get passed.

The same thing was happening at my state school when I was there. Out of state students seem like a bad solution. Are we going to end up in a system where everyone has to go "out of state" because their in state school is under funded? It is like a perverse instantiation of musical chairs, and it seems broken.

Re: UC proposes its first enrollment cap on out-of-state students

#70

Good. State universities are perversely incentivized to prefer higher paying students from out-of-state and international. University of Washington, the state's top school, is now 1/3 non-state residents. It's a serious problem.

Lets send Washington students to UC system and California students to UW. This is how the public school system was designed to serve their local communities /s
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