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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#311

Post by kalleboo »

ISL wrote: post #10
marak830 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean less than? The processing fees part is throwing me off. I do agree though, in Japan I'm seeing a lot of credit or phone based transactions , I almost never carry cash now. Side note: my wallets last longer!

Interesting -- just got back from Japan, traveling in smaller communities. Almost all of our transactions were in cash.

Restaurants and anything mom&pop will probably be cash-only, but pretty much anything that's a chain (big supermarkets, stores in malls with their own branded cards [includes JR train stations], etc) tends to support electronic payments.

I find a lot of places may accept cards if you ask them, but they don't have card logo stickers anywhere or a prominent card reader.

Re: In praise of cash

#312

Post by kalleboo »

alkonaut wrote: post #232

Couldn't a lot of the downsides with the credit card system be at least fixed somewhat by anonymization? E.g a card that generates new numbers for each transaction stops the store from tracking my purchasing habits. Similarly a store that doesn't record any more than the amount to the cc company limits what is recorded. I'm not saying this is in the interest of either retailers, banks or credit card companies - but i…

In a lot of places the public transport cards (that are anonymous and can be recharged with cash) are also accepted for payments at various retailers (see Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong...) and are very popular since everyone already has one to ride the subway, so why not buy a drink at the convenience store with it too?

Re: In praise of cash

#313

Post by jk563 »

ghaff wrote: post #224
jk563 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as a given. I for one would be more than happy to have a cashless society, and I would struggle to believe that I'm unique out of the ~7 billion there are of us.

Have an upvote. But also try to understand why many people are uncomfortable with the idea that even modest transactions can be monitored by governmental agencies. In practice, there are always ways to work outside the system of course. But to the degree these become real exceptions they become that much more suspicious as a result.

Error in conciseness! I can empathise completely and do understand the reasoning of the opinion of a large number of people who do not want a third party being privy to every transaction. I was attempting to convey that there are likely many people on both sides of the debate, should have expanded a bit more!

Re: In praise of cash

#314

Post by ersii »

Symbiote wrote: post #111
angersock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never paid for admittance to a club? Paid a busker? Gone shopping at a thrift store or pawn shop? Bought something at a garage sale? Paid for dinner and tipped without having to split the check for n different cards? Your post reeks of inexperience.

In the Nordic countries, you can certainly pay admittance to a club and shop in a thrift shop with a card. You can pay by bank transfer done with a phone app (MobilePay in Denmark, Swish in Sweden, etc) at a garage sale. At the last garage sale I went to, there wasn't anyone around -- just a sign saying everything was priced, and to transfer the money to 12 34 56 78 with MobilePay. In fact, trying to pay cash can cau…

> It's not normal to tip in a restaurant (or anywhere else).

Um, what? It's still normal and people do tip at resturants in Sweden. To be fair, neither you or I have any numbers to back it up and have to chalk it up to experience/intuition.

Re: In praise of cash

#315

Post by XorNot »

giardini wrote: post #167
ghaff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.

Last year I tired of reconciling my credit card and checkbook accounts, so shifted to using cash only (I have credit cards if there's an emergency). So far I'm spending ~10% less each month. I'm more careful about purchases. I get and seek cash discounts. Best of all I don't need to do the reconciliation.

You realize cash discounts exist for precisely two reasons: the merchant avoids the 1.5-3% credit transaction charge, and (2) the merchant gets to under-declare on their taxes.

Re: In praise of cash

#316

Post by XorNot »

CPLX wrote: post #255
stupidcar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. Paying with cash is exchanging a promise that someone else, usually the central bank, will pay the bearer on demand the value of the promissory note. Even if you could actually exchange the note for its equivalent in precious metals — which you can't — you're still just exchanging a token without intrinsic value. Its only value is conferred entirely by the monetary whims of the government. Governments can, an…

There is a fundamental difference between a medium of exchange whereby the government would have to devalue or interrupt everyone who holds the instrument in question (like by invalidating a series of bank notes) and one whereby someone can decide that you personally are no longer allowed to use the medium of exchange. Those things are not at all similar. This long rant strikes me as having been written by someone wh…

Have you been?

Re: In praise of cash

#317

Post by coldtea »

rimantas wrote: post #301
coldtea wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what societies have humans used barter? Almost all of them to some degree. Including modern societies (at rural places), especially up until the sixties or so, and even Western European cities (during the war and the very poor years post war). Also common in communist countries...

How many communist countries have you lived in? Cared to name a couple, where barter was preferred?

>How many communist countries have you lived in?

How is that relevant? I've lived in a country that wasn't communist, but had a whole communist vs right/centre civil war. And I've visited a number of ex-communist countries, and know people from there.

But this is not about what I've seen with my eyes, it's about what's recorded in history.

Note also that I didn't say "preferred" (as in making barter the dominant and/or official economy).

Barter was very common in communist countries for "black market" stuff (and in times of great crisis, for essentials).

Here's from Wikipedia, about the aftermath of the revolution in USSR:

Civil War ensued and the economy of the new regime became even more chaotic. With mismanagement rampant and hunger sweeping the land, the value of the ruble, currency of the nation, essentially collapsed.[1] During this interval, remembered by the name War Communism, money lost its function as a store of value and a means of exchange. A return was made by people in their daily lives to a _primitive barter economy_ (emphasis mine)

Also here are some more modern examples: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/12/16/another-...

And one not related to communism (as I wrote, barter was used in Western Europe and many other places as well, in rural societies, but also in times of inflation/depression): http://www.naturalnews.com/052224_economic_collapse_Venezuel...

Re: In praise of cash

#318

Post by Shivetya »

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

One addition.

those same people can later declare a purchase you made to be criminal after the fact. Scenarios include purchases made from someone that is convicted of a crime and the government deciding devices/equipment/goods you own are dangerous to the state

Re: In praise of cash

#319

Post by DavidWanjiru »

gyey wrote: post #281
Jemmeh wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -Edward Snowden

To be the devil's advocate here, what situation can you imagine that would warrant a person to legitimately hide information or keep secrets from their own government?

The govt is not my girlfriend. Why would I want tell them anything?

Re: In praise of cash

#320

Post by mavhc »

Joakal wrote: post #284
rz2k wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you ask for a cash discount?

I've been doing this by just straight up asking. "Is there a discount with cash?" "No" "Ok, I'll pay with my card" Merchants prefer cash as card costs them money. Usually works with dry cleaners, cafes, etc. Big businesses generally say no.

Working with cash costs money too, counting, storage, transport, costs to deposit/get out of a bank
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