The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans • Hacker News Board

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#151

Post by Exofunctor » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

sprash wrote: post #134

Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

> European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions We have a large Turkish community in Germany and it turns out that the new people from e.g. Syria are less violent, theocratic and regressive than the 3rd generation Turkish immigrants we already had. > I'm not even European Which means you have no idea whats going on. People here care…

> Turkish immigrants we already had.

That's not a very high standard. You haven't refuted my point, just said "well, they're not the absolute worst".

> Which means you have no idea whats going on.

You would do well to remember that nowadays we have the internet and international friendships.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#152

Post by FabHK » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 10:52 PM UTC

vmarsy wrote: post #56

metachris wrote: post #4

The reason being that the US still requires visas from 5 EU countries: Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania. And "The EU says it notified the United States in April 2014 that it was not meeting EU visa rules, and had given the country two years to comply."

what most likely would happen as most of these agreements is full reciprocity. i.e., like Europeans have to pay $14 for the ESTA visa waiver to travel in the US, Americans would have to do the same and register online. That visa waiver would hopefully work for the entire E.U. Or, like Australia, Brunei, Japan, and Canada which were similarly notified and implemented the changes, the US will do the same. http://www.in…

$14 is visa waiver. Visa is much more expensive, $160, plus a visit to the consulate for an interview.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#153

Post by rfrank » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 10:56 PM UTC

cplanas wrote: post #145

WildUtah wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody says estadounidenses . The standard, common word in western hemisphere Spanish for people from the United States is an ethnic slur against us. Which should help indicate how good an idea it is to invite more people from that region to our country.

In Spain at least, "estadounidense" is the standard for "American". Which is the ethnic slur?

Gringo

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#154

Post by Exofunctor » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 10:56 PM UTC

lispm wrote: post #131

Exofunctor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not right-wing by any stretch of the imagination (pretty hard left, actually), so the fact that instead of actually thinking about my arguments you just slap a label on them and dismiss them out of hand should disturb you. Perhaps what's confusing to you is that I'm capable of considering the thought process of people I disagree with. > Point me to a recording where Schulz said anything like that. You understand…

> You understand that not everything politicians say is recorded? That said, Burg has literally no reason to lie about this. So all you have is that? Let's sum it up: there is no recording of that, there are no witnesses, there has been no transcript, Schulz himself has never acknowledged it, there are no other sources where Schulz has said anything like that, ... All you have is a sentence which is circulating in ri…

So what you're saying is that a direct claim from a high-ranking Israeli politician about a conversation he had, with no apparent benefit to lying about its contents, is not enough?

> right-wing groups

Haaretz, a liberal Israeli newspaper, is a "right wing group"?

> What does it have to do with Martin Schulz?

I feel like I'm chatting with a bot; do you remember the course of our conversation?

Yes, Schulz has been working for the EU for a long time; he also, apparently, has had strong interests outside the EU for as well. Why do you think many Europeans feel betrayed by the EU?

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#155

Post by am_i_down » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 10:58 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #33

am_i_down wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis.

> It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis. If that is indeed the real reason, it means we as a species have hilariously overblown reactions to perceived threats.

What's the big deal with climate change and famine? I am sitting in an air-conditioned room and have a pantry full of food! We as a species have hilariously overblown reactions to perceived threats.

The smug your-problem-aren't-real attitude by the elite is certainly another reason for populism.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#156

Post by zaatar » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 11:00 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #152

vmarsy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what most likely would happen as most of these agreements is full reciprocity. i.e., like Europeans have to pay $14 for the ESTA visa waiver to travel in the US, Americans would have to do the same and register online. That visa waiver would hopefully work for the entire E.U. Or, like Australia, Brunei, Japan, and Canada which were similarly notified and implemented the changes, the US will do the same. http://www.in…

$14 is visa waiver. Visa is much more expensive, $160, plus a visit to the consulate for an interview.

It's not simply the financial implications; the visa-process for B1/B2 entails handing over a ton of paperwork (e.g. student records, health records, employment records, etc.) which go into your file, and further, all your 10 fingerprints. The VWP doesn't entail all of that extra stuff. One could argue that the $160-$14 saving is but the simple part, the bigger issue is the loss of privacy that comes with the application of a visa.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#157

Post by Exofunctor » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 11:00 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #149

Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

One significant thing that you are missing is a sense of making good on past misdeeds. Europe owes it's economic power to centuries of fucking over Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. And when they de-colonised those places, they set up systems to keep them fucked up. So when you see refugees trying to escape those places, there is a sense of duty to them. A clear case of this is Syria, which is in the shitter because…

Yes, you're right; European politics has fallen victim to ridiculous notions of ancestral guilt. Is it any wonder that people who had no involvement in something that happened hundreds of years ago are unhappy that they're being punished for it?

> European unity is about more than free trade.

You're right again, which is why it's insane to drive a wedge between Europeans with politically and socially untenable forced immigration.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#158

Post by vacri » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 11:01 PM UTC

Exofunctor wrote: post #115

lispm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to actually try to refute anything I said. Refute right-wing propaganda? > It is according to Avraham Burg, and I'm not sure there is anyone more qualified to make such a claim. Point me to a recording where Schulz said anything like that. On the contrary, Schulz has a decade long track record working for Germany and the European Union.

I'm not right-wing by any stretch of the imagination (pretty hard left, actually), so the fact that instead of actually thinking about my arguments you just slap a label on them and dismiss them out of hand should disturb you. Perhaps what's confusing to you is that I'm capable of considering the thought process of people I disagree with. > Point me to a recording where Schulz said anything like that. You understand…

> That said, Burg has literally no reason to lie about this.

o_O

X = "Israel"

Y = "EU"

A senior $X politician 'has literally no reason to lie' about $Y support for $X!?

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#159

Post by Exofunctor » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 11:02 PM UTC

ascorbic wrote: post #140

Exofunctor wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you implying? That I need to live in the EU to have knowledge of EU politics?

I'm saying that your post could have been copied verbatim from any number of right wing US sites.

Maybe it could have, but it wasn't. Have you tried analyzing my arguments instead of just recognizing that it sort of reminds you of something you disagree with?

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#160

Post by am_i_down » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 11:03 PM UTC

robert_foss wrote: post #68

am_i_down wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis.

This is such FUD. How would preventing US citizens from coming to the EU prevent African and Middle Eastern refugees to come to Europe?

I meant that the refugee crisis fueled populism, not that it prompted this potential visa change for US citizens.