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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#41

Post by AnimalMuppet »

pdkl95 wrote: post #28
nunez wrote: post #2

While I agree that cash is extremely convenient and largely anonymous, it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are. I lived in NYC for a bunch of years and the one thing that I absolutely do not miss is paying for >$100 dinners, entirely in cash, because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees.

> still much more of a hassle That's when everything works correctly. What about when the power goes out and the card reading device stops working? What about transaction denials due to bank mistakes (or predatory policies)? Having the option to pay with credit/etc is nice, but the failure modes can be nasty.

I've had the pleasure (?) of going on vacation without notifying the card company. Because a hotel was late with a correction to their charge, that showed the card in use at two places at once, so they shut it down. While I was on vacation. That got... uncomfortable.

Fortunately, they only shut down my card. My wife's still worked, and we were able to proceed. It made for a more stressful vacation, though...

Re: In praise of cash

#42

Post by jon-wood »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

You have a point about cashless transactions, though I'm not sure if the argument about the word "authorization" stands. At least I always understood it that I authenticate myself to the bank, and then I authorize the bank to transfer my funds to someone else...

In an ideal scenario that's the case, however the bank isn't solely answerable to you. There are situations such as being investigated by the police where access to any money in your bank account can be suspended, and they will no longer authorise you to make use of it.

Re: In praise of cash

#43

Post by jrs235 »

canadian_voter wrote: post #16
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

Bingo, I think you nailed it. The cashless society – which more accurately should be called the bank-payments society... is a utopia where money cannot leave – or even exist – outside the banking system, but can only be transferred from bank to bank. Such a system replaces a relationship between two parties with relationships between those parties and the bank. If either party falls out of favour with the bank, they…

The introduction of the revelatory "mark of the beast". No one will be able to [legally] buy or sell without it. I suspect anyone that tries to barter or trade outside of the system will be considered and labeled a criminal for operating in black markets or tax evasion.

Re: In praise of cash

#44

Post by AnimalMuppet »

013a wrote: post #18

My biggest concern is the frightening fact that all of these cashless systems are powered by private, for-profit banks. I'd be more fine with a move to cashless if the fundamental system which powered it were operated by the Fed (for free, as a public service), not Visa or Mastercard.

I go the other way. If Visa decides they don't like me, Mastercard or American Express may still do business with me. If the Fed decides they don't like me, my only option is to leave the country.

Re: In praise of cash

#45

Post by ghaff »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #41
pdkl95 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still much more of a hassle That's when everything works correctly. What about when the power goes out and the card reading device stops working? What about transaction denials due to bank mistakes (or predatory policies)? Having the option to pay with credit/etc is nice, but the failure modes can be nasty.

I've had the pleasure (?) of going on vacation without notifying the card company. Because a hotel was late with a correction to their charge, that showed the card in use at two places at once, so they shut it down. While I was on vacation. That got... uncomfortable. Fortunately, they only shut down my card. My wife's still worked, and we were able to proceed. It made for a more stressful vacation, though...

Pro tip. Always carry a second credit card (from a different bank) when you travel. It's just too easy for anti-fraud systems to be triggered by something they don't like and to be in a situation where you're not really in a position to spend 30 minutes on the phone proving you are who you say you are.

The systems can really trigger on random stuff too. After the last time when I gave them holy hell and threatened to pull my business, I haven't had trouble since. But before that, as someone who travels worldwide, I had transactions declined at 1.) a gas station convenience store and 2.) a grocery store in the Western US.

Re: In praise of cash

#46

Post by mrec »

nunez wrote: post #2

While I agree that cash is extremely convenient and largely anonymous, it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are. I lived in NYC for a bunch of years and the one thing that I absolutely do not miss is paying for >$100 dinners, entirely in cash, because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are

I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

Re: In praise of cash

#47

Post by valuearb »

nxc18 wrote: post #4

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you can argue that one should be able to reasonably break laws and not get caught - anything else is a surveillance state and there is value to discretionary enforcement - I wouldn't characterize criticism of cash as just manipulative. For example, on my campus, t…

"who are more than you'd think; who do you know who hasn't broken at law at least once or twice"

You wrote this without an ounce of introspection, not thinking about what we classify as "crime" nowadays and how much are entirely victimless activities.

Re: In praise of cash

#48

Post by whispered »

nannal wrote: post #27
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I'm a bitcoin supporter (and user) for this among many other reasons.

I'm a Monero supporter (and owner and future user once more widely adopted) because like cash, no one can tell how much money you have in your wallet or who you're buying things from. With Bitcoin, neither of those is true.

Re: In praise of cash

#49

Post by jstanley »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #38
nannal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bitcoin supporter (and user) for this among many other reasons.

I must admit that I don't understand the details of bitcoin. But if I understand correctly, can't a majority of owners block your transaction?

Most Bitcoin owners have absolutely no say in whether or not your transaction goes through. Only miners can do that.

Big miners can easily delay your transaction, by refusing to include it in a block, but the only way they can prevent your transaction entirely is if all of the miners collude not to include it.

Re: In praise of cash

#50

Post by ryanobjc »

fjdlwlv wrote: post #19
sparrish wrote: post #13

After having my card skimmed for the 4th time (at a gas station pump, at checkout at grocery store, etc), I decided to pay for everything with cash. It's not worth the hours it takes to clear up things with the bank and I get a better understanding of where my money is being spent when my wallet gets light.

How many hours will you spend at the ATM withdrawing cash? You get a better understanding of spending by feeling your wallet then by looking at your bank statements? That smells like a false pseudounderstanding.

Considering that banks use poor customers as a source of fees to make money, the GP comment is spot on. They've regained control, and honestly your "just check a thing once a month" is hardly the kind of visceral knowledge from watching your wallet get thinner as the month goes on.
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