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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#31

Post by ghaff »

BlackMonday wrote: post #22
ghaff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Sweden apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cash...

The article you linked was on HN's or reddit's frontpage recently, that's why I wrote "most". ;o) (plus I don't know enough about every european country obviously). EDIT - looking at the date of the article it might have been not the same, but a similar one.

Anecdotally, I think you're generally right that Europe isn't as heavily into plastic (whether credit cards or something else) as the US. (Though they're pretty widely-accepted in the UK where I spend most of my European time.) I'll be in Germany at the end of the month and it sounds as if I should definitely expect to pay cash a lot of the time.

Sweden does seem to be this cashless outlier for some reason. [EDIT: I gather it's a Nordics thing more generally.] I think it was also featured in a Freakonomics episode fairly recently.

Re: In praise of cash

#32

Post by frandroid »

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

Thanks for summarizing this so succinctly.

Re: In praise of cash

#33

Post by ghaff »

angersock wrote: post #8
nxc18 wrote: post #4

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you can argue that one should be able to reasonably break laws and not get caught - anything else is a surveillance state and there is value to discretionary enforcement - I wouldn't characterize criticism of cash as just manipulative. For example, on my campus, t…

Have you never paid for admittance to a club? Paid a busker? Gone shopping at a thrift store or pawn shop? Bought something at a garage sale? Paid for dinner and tipped without having to split the check for n different cards? Your post reeks of inexperience.

I've actually wondered what the impact on buskers, clerks that make some money off a tip jar, etc. is of the shift toward plastic. I guess, in the US, a dollar bill is still a relatively small amount. But I know that I basically never have change on me these days unless it's quarters to put in a parking meter.

Re: In praise of cash

#34

Post by frandroid »

koolba wrote: post #26
sparrish wrote: post #13

After having my card skimmed for the 4th time (at a gas station pump, at checkout at grocery store, etc), I decided to pay for everything with cash. It's not worth the hours it takes to clear up things with the bank and I get a better understanding of where my money is being spent when my wallet gets light.

Hope you're not using an ATM to get your cash ...

ATMs are more hardened, and you visit less of them (and you keep visiting the same ones) so you can spot skimmers more easily.

Re: In praise of cash

#35

Post by illumin8 »

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I get it, but think of what you're getting in return.

The example in the article, about the Coke vending machine. Imagine in the past, before vending machines - the only way you would be able to buy a Coke in that particular area would be if there was enough foot traffic to justify a full time real human being to sit there all day, with inventory of soft drinks, and exchange your cash for them.

The opportunity cost alone of having a human being sit there and accept payments, and risk being robbed, is immense compared to the cost of putting a vending machine there with an electronic payment system.

I would argue that without new technologies like this, your ability as a consumer to buy a Coke would be severely limited.

We might as well go back to a feudal society where everyone met in the village market during the morning to buy food and goods. The convenience factor alone of being able to buy anything you want in almost any area of the world, at any time of day or night, without having to have a live human being there to perform the transaction, is huge.

Re: In praise of cash

#36

Post by TeMPOraL »

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

You have a point about cashless transactions, though I'm not sure if the argument about the word "authorization" stands. At least I always understood it that I authenticate myself to the bank, and then I authorize the bank to transfer my funds to someone else...

Re: In praise of cash

#37

Post by stdbrouw »

illumin8 wrote: post #35
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I get it, but think of what you're getting in return. The example in the article, about the Coke vending machine. Imagine in the past, before vending machines - the only way you would be able to buy a Coke in that particular area would be if there was enough foot traffic to justify a full time real human being to sit there all day, with inventory of soft drinks, and exchange your cash for them. The opportunity cost a…

This has to be the worst imaginable example. Have you never seen a coin-operated vending machine?

Re: In praise of cash

#38

Post by AnimalMuppet »

nannal wrote: post #27
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I'm a bitcoin supporter (and user) for this among many other reasons.

I must admit that I don't understand the details of bitcoin. But if I understand correctly, can't a majority of owners block your transaction?

Re: In praise of cash

#39

Post by PaulAJ »

The thing about the cashless surveillance panopticon is that it still can't stop illegal drugs. Every prison is exactly that kind of surveillance society, and in every prison drugs are readily available.

HSBC is one of the principle members of this privatised money system. It was found to be laundering money for international drug dealers, and got off with a slap on the wrist. Nobody working at the bank has been prosecuted.

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