AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive • Hacker News Board

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#291

Post by msbarnett » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 3:31 AM UTC

resoluteteeth wrote: post #262

mee_too wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ECC is a feel good feature, but is mostly useless. Memory either is corrupted (which can be detected by running MemTest) or it works perfectly fine without ECC. I have over 50 10+ year old Itanium servers with 192GB ECC RAM each, there are 2 ECC errors logged total, while running 24/7.

> Memory either is corrupted (which can be detected by running MemTest) or it works perfectly fine without ECC. While there is reason to think soft errors are much less common than often claimed and therefore ECC memory has been much less necessary than people think (at least within the atmosphere), there's now a pretty good reason to prefer ECC memory because of rowhammer.

ECC has been shown to be ineffective against all but the most primitive forms of rowhammer attacks

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#292

Post by caf » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 3:31 AM UTC

smitherfield wrote: post #288

caf wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even crusty old Microsoft Excel parallelises worksheet recalculation.

Sure, but Excel is presumably one of the most optimized (in terms of the amount of money and brainpower devoted to optimizing it) applications in existence.

That's not the feeling you get when you use it, it seems more like the underlying engine hasn't really changed a great deal in 20 years.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#293

Post by Keyframe » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 3:32 AM UTC

lightedman wrote: post #274

mee_too wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 lanes per GPU is plenty, the performance diff with 16 is ~3%. Games will run faster with SLI setup on Ryzen. Why do you even need SLI, 1080 Ti will be good enough for 5K gaming.

Your piddly 5K doesn't stand up to my 8K professional video setup. To boot, I have multiple drives, and PCI-E/M.2 based networking and storage as well. Please try again when you need to juggle 1,000+ video feeds simultaneously and truly understand what REAL power requires.

You ought to check out this new computer Amiga 4000 with Video Toaster. It can do all the amazing video effects you're doing AND play games.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#294

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 4:10 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #164

vxxzy wrote: post #2

Wow. AMD has really pulled through on this one. They are really giving Intel a run for their money. This is going to be great for consumers. What is interesting is the HUGE jump in multi-threaded performance on AMD. Very interesting.

> What is interesting is the HUGE jump in multi-threaded performance on AMD. Very interesting. Indeed. Single threaded performance, however, seems bad. Virtual cores most likely share less of the actual core than on Intel parts, allowing one to compete less with the other and get more done. On my i7 laptop, on anything more demanding, I see half the "cores" idling, probably because one is using the actual underlying…

Hyperthreading is not a virtual core and as it doesn't exist as a separate core its hard for it to be idling. Bad analogies make for less than adequate understanding.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#295

Post by r00fus » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 4:10 AM UTC

dfrey wrote: post #178

mrb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, seen another way (better representation of the overall reality): The 7700k is losing in all aspects below w.r.t. the Ryzen 7 1800X, except absolute single-threaded perf. Intel is losing in: - absolute multi-threaded performance - relative multi-threaded performance per $ - memory bandwidth - L3-cache bound workloads (AMD has twice more L3) - price of motherboards

You left out the tiny detail that the 7700k is $150USD cheaper than the 1800X.

What about when you factor in mobo costs?

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#296

Post by sundvor » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC

lewisl9029 wrote: post #290

photon-torpedo wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To word your statement differently: without ECC, your memory either works fine or is corrupted. But you don't know which one it is, until you run memtest. How often do you do that? Personal anecdote: Upgraded RAM in my PC, ran memtest, everything fine. A year later, I need to move and so I consolidate all my data on a big hard disk. As the disk is new, I run some verification and notice some non-matching checksums. L…

> To word your statement differently: without ECC, your memory either works fine or is corrupted. But you don't know which one it is, until you run memtest. How often do you do that? Definitely this. The extra safety of mind offered by ECC RAM is totally worth the tiny price difference for me. The only thing that stopped me from actually using it was the lack of (affordable) CPU support. Ryzen changes that. On that n…

I can't wait to see more than 4 cores in a laptop!

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#297

Post by em500 » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 4:40 AM UTC

throwaway132791 wrote: post #67

Rather strange that AMD's stock is down ~ 2.5 %

The stock is down 7% compared to yesterday, but up 500% compared to one year ago.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#298

Post by unholythree » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 5:03 AM UTC

trueSlav wrote: post #66

izacus wrote: post #31

If I read the specs correctly, Ryzens don't have GPUs integrated. Are there any motherboards out there with GPUs on board? Or do you always have to add a 150EUR+ graphics card to it (assuming I want at least 2x 4K display support)? The 1800X does seem like a killer value for the money for us C++ people :)

The fact that it doesn't have an integrated gpu is a GREAT THING. This is an enthusiast/server CPU, if you can't be bothered to buy a cheap dedicated graphics card, wait for the mobile/apu Zen.

For a server I want a crummy integrated GPU to use every once in awhile without wasting a PCI-E slot.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#299

Post by AlphaSite » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 5:08 AM UTC

BayesStreet wrote: post #240

Unklejoe wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link to the comment of the CEO of AMD confirming that Ryzen supports ECC memory: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_crea...

For anyone looking at a new AM4 build with high speed memory, be warned that Linus' review stated he could not POST with memory clocked past 2666MHz[0] [0] https://youtu.be/9wJQEHNYE7M?t=4m43s

It's very motherboard dependant (and on prerelease BIOSes. Although if the issue lies with AMD or The motherboard maker we shall see later.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#300

Post by compton_effect » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 5:08 AM UTC

clarry wrote: post #250

timdafweak wrote: post #7

Impressive! While it doesn’t utterly destroy Intel, AMD does offer a MUCH better price/performance ratio. Things have gotten much more interesting indeed. Intel’s dominance is being called into question. As a result, we all profit.

It offers much better price/performance ratio if the seriously multi-threaded use scenarios matter for you (that is where you compete with Intel's seriously overpriced >$1000 chips). It seems that in common use (web browsing, office, gaming), fewer but stronger cores still shine and even the fastest Ryzen is slower and more expensive than Intel's offering. So it really depends. A lot.

Well...for the time being. When the R5 and R3 get released in Q2, we will have 6 and 4 core versions with higher clock speeds so that might help a bit. Plus based on the pricing, I'm gonna bet a 4 core ryzen will be a bit cheaper than a 4 core kaby lake.