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AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

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Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#161

Post by MLR »

Orangeair wrote: post #151
mtgx wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's mainly because games aren't optimized to take advantage of 16 threads - yet. That's partially Intel's fault for keeping 8+ core processors so expensive. AMD is trying to change that. Of course 16t games won't be available from day one of Ryzen launch.

As a lot of other people online are pointing out, this is pretty much the exact same thing people said when Bulldozer came out, but it never materialized. AMD has always won in terms of core count, and people have been saying for years that games capable of taking advantage of 8+ threads/cores are right around the corner, but it never really happened. We shouldn't be basing purchase decisions today on what might theo…

It's much more true today to be fair, and with DX12/Vulkan it should become much more common over the next few years.

Ryzen is much better positioned anyway because it has almost comparable IPC (Broadwell levels), that means even when you get a dual core/single core optimised game you'll get good performance rather than the horrible situation with older AMD CPUs.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#162

Post by bitL »

izacus wrote: post #31

If I read the specs correctly, Ryzens don't have GPUs integrated. Are there any motherboards out there with GPUs on board? Or do you always have to add a 150EUR+ graphics card to it (assuming I want at least 2x 4K display support)? The 1800X does seem like a killer value for the money for us C++ people :)

IIRC motherboards have some standard integrated Radeon, though only DP 1.2 and HDMI 1.4a for now.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#163

Post by usrusr »

mtgx wrote: post #115
kayoone wrote: post #21

Seems like gamers in general are a little disappointed, for everyone else this CPU is amazing at that pricepoint though.

And it's mainly because games aren't optimized to take advantage of 16 threads - yet. That's partially Intel's fault for keeping 8+ core processors so expensive. AMD is trying to change that. Of course 16t games won't be available from day one of Ryzen launch.

Don't hold your breath: efficiency at the game's minimum spec is always much more important than efficiency at the top end. And that minimum spec will stay a dual core mobile CPU for the foreseeable future. Therefore, anything that would sacrifice a little performance on a low end few cores system to get even faster on a high end many cores system just isn't an option.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#164

Post by rbanffy »

vxxzy wrote: post #2

Wow. AMD has really pulled through on this one. They are really giving Intel a run for their money. This is going to be great for consumers. What is interesting is the HUGE jump in multi-threaded performance on AMD. Very interesting.

> What is interesting is the HUGE jump in multi-threaded performance on AMD. Very interesting.

Indeed. Single threaded performance, however, seems bad. Virtual cores most likely share less of the actual core than on Intel parts, allowing one to compete less with the other and get more done. On my i7 laptop, on anything more demanding, I see half the "cores" idling, probably because one is using the actual underlying core while the other is waiting.

Still, while AMD obviously did a good job, it will not make the Intel guys lose any sleep for now.

The server parts are another story. If they manage to reliably outperform Xeons (even if it's only on a per watt basis), it'll be fun to watch.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#165

Post by tutanchamun »

bdz wrote: post #72

Looking at those gaming benchmarks. Turns out the single core performance is still more important than having more cores. https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/premiera_i_test_procesora_am...

what's up with some of the tests? For example this one:

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/premiera_i_test_procesora_am...

A Broadwell with 3300 Mhz (3700 Mhz boost) beats a Kaby Lake (Skylake...) with 4200 Mhz (4500 Mhz boost)? Can the Broadwell use the 128MB EDRRAM from the iGPU as a L4 cache if the iGPU is not used? Would that actually make such a difference?

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#166

Post by rockdoe »

ldev wrote: post #126
olegkikin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it wins in every case where performance truly matters: multi-threaded calculations, archiving, encoding. You know, the things that actually do take up time. Do you really care if your webpage renders for half a second longer?

I'm actually using my computer and not running it as a build server. I'd take 16 ghz single core CPU over 4 core 4ghz any time of the day.

Anyone would. That's not the option on offer though.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#167

Post by mrb »

yread wrote: post #4
vxxzy wrote: post #2

Wow. AMD has really pulled through on this one. They are really giving Intel a run for their money. This is going to be great for consumers. What is interesting is the HUGE jump in multi-threaded performance on AMD. Very interesting.

But it's still losing in every web and office single threaded benchmark. EDIT: compared to 7700k that costs about the same

Or, seen another way (better representation of the overall reality):

The 7700k is losing in all aspects below w.r.t. the Ryzen 7 1800X, except absolute single-threaded perf. Intel is losing in:

- absolute multi-threaded performance

- relative multi-threaded performance per $

- memory bandwidth

- L3-cache bound workloads (AMD has twice more L3)

- price of motherboards

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#168

Post by gigatexal »

contras1970 wrote: post #159
gigatexal wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be a fun test, too. One would need to control for disk io but definitely useful. I wonder how many HN readers run FBSD

FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT on this very laptop. I'm going to build an 1800X-based box in a few weeks (for games; planning to run Steam on a GNU/Linux distro), I'll want to see `make -j16 buildworld` for sure.

Got a blog or something you're going to post results to? I'm intrigued

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#169

Post by tormeh »

Orangeair wrote: post #151
mtgx wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's mainly because games aren't optimized to take advantage of 16 threads - yet. That's partially Intel's fault for keeping 8+ core processors so expensive. AMD is trying to change that. Of course 16t games won't be available from day one of Ryzen launch.

As a lot of other people online are pointing out, this is pretty much the exact same thing people said when Bulldozer came out, but it never materialized. AMD has always won in terms of core count, and people have been saying for years that games capable of taking advantage of 8+ threads/cores are right around the corner, but it never really happened. We shouldn't be basing purchase decisions today on what might theo…

They are here now. Almost no modern AAA game recommends less than 4 cores. Many won't start with less than 4 threads. And they do scale to 8 cores. This is because of the consoles, which both have 6-7 cores.

Re: AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive

#170

Post by nibb0r »

tutanchamun wrote: post #53
dmm wrote: post #8

> ... this means that the base memory controller in the silicon should be able to support ECC. We know that it is disabled for the consumer parts, but nothing has been said regarding the Pro parts. ECC should be a standard feature. If you don't want it you don't have to use it but to disable simply for market segmentation is lame.

Considering previous AMD chips could use ECC I hope it's true this time as well. AMD's CEO Dr. Lisa Su has an AMA later today, we should probably ask her: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5vl431/its_happening_a... Might as well ask her about the possibility of coreboot if we are at it.

According to AMD: "ECC is not disabled. It works, but not validated for our consumer client platform."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_crea...

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