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Sweden brings back military conscription

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#71

Post by dredmorbius »

entropyneur wrote: post #57

I am quite surprised by the number of people here (and even larger numbers elsewhere this is being discussed) who don't seem to have any ethical problem with conscription. Thought the idea of killer slaves was completely off limits in the West. Now all of a sudden we are debating cost effectiveness. Guess I thought wrong.

There's no such thing as a good war.

There are necessary wars.

And ultimately, a failure to be able to defend against neighboring beligerants is fatal to a society.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#72

Post by komali2 »

67726e wrote: post #30
colechristensen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not all, but some people with criminal tendencies could and do benefit from the structure and support of serving in the military. How much crime do you think is caused by people who didn't grow up learning discipline and responsibility and can't keep food on the table or a steady job? You don't have to kick the shit out of most of those people to turn them into an effective soldier.

Anecdotally, it worked for my uncle. The judge gave him the option to join the Marines or go to prison. He chose the former and he ended up becoming a productive member of society.

I've never heard of this type of judgement. Was this in the USA? What was your uncle's crime?

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#73

Post by BurningFrog »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #55
BurningFrog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A credible deterrent in 2020 is not 200k dudes with guns. It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines. Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.

You don't need massive air and naval power to be very tough to attack. All you have to do is see the Afghan wars, both Russian and American, for great examples. They had no airforce and no need for naval forces. A large armed and mobile force is very able to put up solid resistance to pretty much anything you can throw at it save for nukes which will likely never be used.

Afghanistan was easily conquered by both the USSR and the US.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#74

Post by yjgyhj »

Kenji wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #6

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

It is impossible. If I was conscripted, I would actively sabotage those who did this to me, just out of spite. I live in a country with conscription. Luckily, I was seen unfit for the army before it went that far.

I felt that way when I was called in for evaluation as a teenager. I was a peace loving left-wing Swedish boy. That was maybe 8 years ago or so, I remember conscription being scrapped a year or two later.

I regret not making an effort to do it. I chose to underperform in my test because I believed all is better than war. But as an adult I've changed, and realised I wouldn't quite mind dying for things like my language to be dominant in my home and spoken by my leaders, as well as dying to not lose honor. Things I would at the time had considered naive. I now consider by old stance naive, as it implied my own life as the most important thing in the world.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that I'll likely be of another stance at 40, just like I'm thinking along the same ideals as at 18. If anyone older than me remember thinking these things at 25 I'd be love to hear.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#75

Post by htns »

thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

Sweden had already shrunk their military in recognition of these things. The problem is they overshot, and can't recruit enough volunteers to maintain even a tiny force.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#77

Post by yjgyhj »

pinum wrote: post #62
robert_foss wrote: post #44

So to add some needed background information to this: Every 18 year old has been forced to submit a form stating if they want to be conscripted. That's about 100k people every year. Out of the 100k, about 20k state that they do want to be conscripted. Out of the 20k that say yes, 4k are selected during a screening process that evaluates physical and mental fitness. So there are no less than 2 points where you can opt…

That doesn't sound like conscription, then. If they didn't have enough people saying yes, do they start drawing from the "no" pile?

Yes they do - if not enough people volunteer, they will force the ones seeming most fit for the tasks at hand.

Also, if I know the Swedish military, they'll chose the most fit for the task, but make absolutely sure to fill the gender quotas.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#78

Post by philh »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #45
67726e wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, it worked for my uncle. The judge gave him the option to join the Marines or go to prison. He chose the former and he ended up becoming a productive member of society.

sounds like GoT, take the black or be executed. Still, I think this is a point in favor of conscription - there's a big generation of young adults that don't learn how to adult anymore, basic stuff like laundry, ironing, regular exercise, (self-) discipline, etc.

If young adults are getting by without knowing how to iron, I suggest that says more about ironing than it does about the adults.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#79

Post by zilean »

mzs wrote: post #64
zilean wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt... Russia has nothing to gain in baltic that it doesnt have with Kaliningrad. Same goes for Ukraine w/o Crimea.

Russia Today? It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.

Whats wrong with RT in general (besides funding) and this article in particular?

> It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.

Why take this land? It does nothing strategically, has population that you need to subsidise, etc. Crimea allows Black Sea control. Kaliningrad effectively makes Baltic inner sea for Russia and if there ever would be any baltic action you would see that, not many (if any) ships would be able to enter.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#80

Post by yjgyhj »

mzs wrote: post #67
macintux wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is part of NATO and thus is absolutely a target.

Outside Stockholm: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/20/1413790933744_wps_... Also Sweden is has been aligning more with UK in particular lately and Russian media has noticed.

Getting a 404 error on that link. Mind resubmitting to Imgur?
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