Live data from Hacker News

Sweden brings back military conscription

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 418 posts

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#41

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

It's cheap.

On the other hand, the professional army in Sweden is largely recruited out of the conscripted soldiers, and unless it's propaganda they are considered to be professional and reliable, for instance in recent missions in Afghanistan etc.

It was a long time ago 99% of the men where forced to do their military service. The idea is that you are forced to at least go through a recruitment process and/or a short introductory education, you can swoop up those that are talented but uninterested initially, but might reconsider.

I think you are right in that if you can't attract motivated and talented people, you should fix that rather than force people.

In my own case, the idea of mandatory training did more harm than good as it just pissed me off on principle... I got drafted to a probably quite interesting service actually - that I likely would not have appreciated. But as the Soviet union just had collapsed, someone decided that they could spend the money on something else before I actually started, so I did never find out.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. I've trained regular volunteer soldiers and even then it's hard to motivate some of them from time to time, I can't imagine how hard it would be with conscripts...This also annoys me when idiot right-wing politicians vomit out the idea that criminal youth etc should be pushed into the army. It's both an insult to volunteers and professional pride/cohesion and impossible. This is not the 1930s,…

Certainly not all, but some people with criminal tendencies could and do benefit from the structure and support of serving in the military. How much crime do you think is caused by people who didn't grow up learning discipline and responsibility and can't keep food on the table or a steady job? You don't have to kick the shit out of most of those people to turn them into an effective soldier.

Yeap, if they're going to shoot other people, might as well make it official.

Yes, I'm being facetious, but if we're going to have reeducation camps paid by public money, I'd rather have them learn more useful things than how to handle military equipment.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#43
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically Sweden has not been invaded in quite a long time, right?

Sweden is maybe the only country in the world that has no independence day.

Not exactly true, imo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_War_of_Liberation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Sweden

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#44
So to add some needed background information to this:

Every 18 year old has been forced to submit a form stating if they want to be conscripted. That's about 100k people every year.

Out of the 100k, about 20k state that they do want to be conscripted.

Out of the 20k that say yes, 4k are selected during a screening process that evaluates physical and mental fitness.

So there are no less than 2 points where you can opt out of being conscripted if you so like.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not all, but some people with criminal tendencies could and do benefit from the structure and support of serving in the military. How much crime do you think is caused by people who didn't grow up learning discipline and responsibility and can't keep food on the table or a steady job? You don't have to kick the shit out of most of those people to turn them into an effective soldier.

Anecdotally, it worked for my uncle. The judge gave him the option to join the Marines or go to prison. He chose the former and he ended up becoming a productive member of society.

sounds like GoT, take the black or be executed. Still, I think this is a point in favor of conscription - there's a big generation of young adults that don't learn how to adult anymore, basic stuff like laundry, ironing, regular exercise, (self-) discipline, etc.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#47
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'if this isn't for you then you can go home' I did compulsory military service, including in a leadership role. "If you don't do what you're told, you don't get go home next weekend." Worked very well for conscripts, who usually get to go home for many weekends (unless on exercises). There are also many smaller privileges you can take a way for smaller infractions. Although when you have a defensive military that do…

A credible deterrent in 2020 is not 200k dudes with guns. It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines. Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.

> It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines.

Afghanistan would beg to differ...

> Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.

Unless the goal of fighting a war is to wipe the opposing side off the face of the earth, no, it's a credible defense. You bleed the enemy until they lose the will to fight.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#48

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

Lots of countries weren't a target when Germany decided to annex most of Europe. Neutrality worked for a lot of countries in WWI, but Germany was like "well screw you". Ukraine never asked to be invaded by Russia.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#49

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

War is not something that can be controlled once it breaks out. Non-aligned militaries that come into close proximity is something that's very dangerous. At the very least an incident between militaries can cause a diplomatic crisis or at worst start a minor war. The very presence of military forces in the Baltic is a deterrent for that reason. Also Russia has continually violated Swedens air space. Russian pilots ha…

https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt...

Russia has nothing to gain in baltic that it doesnt have with Kaliningrad. Same goes for Ukraine w/o Crimea.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#50

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

you might enjoy this movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigerland

Post reply on HN