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Sweden brings back military conscription

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#31

Post by Kenji »

chrisseaton wrote: post #6

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

It is impossible. If I was conscripted, I would actively sabotage those who did this to me, just out of spite. I live in a country with conscription. Luckily, I was seen unfit for the army before it went that far.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#33

Post by mmmBacon »

thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

War is not something that can be controlled once it breaks out. Non-aligned militaries that come into close proximity is something that's very dangerous. At the very least an incident between militaries can cause a diplomatic crisis or at worst start a minor war. The very presence of military forces in the Baltic is a deterrent for that reason.

Also Russia has continually violated Swedens air space. Russian pilots have acted aggressively towards Swedish pilots and Russian submarines have been spotted in Swedish waters.

So while Russia may not be plotting a war against Sweden, they are certainly stirring up trouble. Furthermore a war in the Baltic would be a disaster for Europe. If Russia perceives that they risk a wider war, they may back down.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#34

Post by icebraining »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #23
chrisseaton wrote: post #6

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

How do you motivate a non-existent volunteer? If not enough people are volunteering for the military, how else are you supposed to defend your country? It's not as good a situation as if you had an all-volunteer army, but that doesn't seem to be an option for Sweden.

The civilian world deals with the problem of having few applicants every day without resorting to manhandling people.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#35

Post by macintux »

mzs wrote: post #28
thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

Cause Norway is? https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/2017/03/norway-moves-milit...

Norway is part of NATO and thus is absolutely a target.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#37

Post by seppin »

thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

> But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/propaganda. I don't think Sweden is a target.

not immediately, not if a greater conflict breaks out Sweden is a key chokepoint to enable Russia to get out of the north. They will need it.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#38

Post by jackcosgrove »

icebraining wrote: post #34
jackcosgrove wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you motivate a non-existent volunteer? If not enough people are volunteering for the military, how else are you supposed to defend your country? It's not as good a situation as if you had an all-volunteer army, but that doesn't seem to be an option for Sweden.

The civilian world deals with the problem of having few applicants every day without resorting to manhandling people.

If you're proposing higher pay for soldiers, then you go from an army of slaves to an army of mercenaries.

Swedish society is already primed to accept conscription, and it's not totally ineffective. It may be the most cost-effective solution to the problem.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#39

Post by thedevil »

nkrisc wrote: post #24
thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

I wouldn't cite propaganda to support that conclusion, precisely because it's propaganda.

I see propaganda as very indicative of future conflicts, especially in countries like Russia, where the news stories are more heavily influenced by the government.

I think propaganda is necessary to support a war effort (and avoid insurrection). Think of it this way: If you're a soldier and your government tells you to invade a random country with nice people, how willing are you to fight? On the other hand, if your government convinces you that the target country is full of Nazis that eat babies and plan to genocide your people, then suddenly you're a hero if you go kill a bunch of strangers who never did anything to you.

So if you're running a country and you want to invade another country, you better start running the propaganda months, if not years, in advance.

Edit: As another example, take the Iraq War. The US and NATO didn't just randomly invade Iraq without propaganda preparation. Bush was even calling Iraq part of the "axis of evil" for at least a year before the Iraq war.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#40

Post by nateberkopec »

What's the point of conscription? Surely there must be a good reason. Boosting the numbers of your military by forcefully bringing in some barely-motivated, hardly-trained conscripts that are discharged just a few months after completing basic training seems ineffective.

Is there some larger "get the public used to military service" social goal?

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