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Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

nytimes.com

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Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#261

Post by aedron »

disiplus wrote: post #226
acchow wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't qualify the growth as "mostly purchased" when it's... 50/50 couponed/full If most of their customers are buying only because they are selling under the market price, then it doesn't matter if the subsidy is 5% or 50% or 100%; their sales are "mostly purchased". Imagine you open a store tomorrow and sell gold for 1% under the market price - suddenly your sales blow up to $1 billion in a day. You have purc…

thats the price of acquiring a customer. for my saas the cost to acquire a customer is X, X is multiple of montly fees. so only after couple of months im going to be on 0. The cost for me could be adwords, running a free plan, or something else. how is this different. I assume that they hope to convert some of those to regular customers.

"We'll sell at a loss but we'll make it up in volume."

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#262

Post by gm-conspiracy »

patrickaljord wrote: post #227
yunti wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is that, you are using a service that is unsustainably too cheap. In the longer term the price will have to increase, probably quite significantly and you'll have to choose whether you think it's still worth it or take the bus. Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid.

> Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid. To be fair, these drivers would be out of jobs without Uber. They are not qualified enough to find better paying jobs. Being underpaid is still better than not being paid at all. However, there's a limit to how little Uber can pay its drivers before they start looking for better paying jobs elsewhere. Uber needs to balance thi…

Two Uber anecdotes:

I had a driver in a brand new Mercedes Benz. He was an older gentleman, that owned three existing companies, and drove for Uber for fun, donating his paychecks to a local community organization.

Friend of my brother bought a van specifically to use for Uber. He is a married stay-at-home dad, and his wife is a practicing MD.

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#263

Post by aedron »

maxander wrote: post #17

Lyft and Uber, from a birds-eye view, do the exact same thing ; and furthermore, neither is profitable, so the entire market is built upon potential future sales bases. Lyft is here valued at, generously, $7 billion. Meanwhile, Uber's valuation is reported variously, but a general Google search suggests its well in excess of $50 billion. This exceeds any expectation of market craziness. Are these investors talking to…

Since no one else has said it yet: It is obviously a massive fucking bubble. Helicopter money slushing around all over the place looking for something to buy. When the fed turns the tap, these companies without any way to make a profit will burn up in a few quarters, and their billion dollar 'value' will go "poof".

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#264

Post by Arnt »

IanCal wrote: post #207
Arnt wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ones would that be? 6 miles is 10 km, that's a nice ride but I've never heard of traffic planners that expect 10km rides.

Maybe I'm totally wrong on this, I guess it just didn't seem like an odd choice in the UK and other countries have much stronger focus on cycling. "People I know" will be a hugely unrepresentative sample though. For another unrepresentative sample, cycling commuters on strava average a bit over 10 miles: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/10-stats-pai... I can't find the stat I want for Copenhagen, they…

AFAIK, most traffic planners seem to believe that "if you build the streets/intersections for cycles, people will use cycles a great deal up to about x km, but only rarely for longer trips" for some x. I've heard different values of x, nothing close to 10. I'm sure it depends on the climate, terrain, etc.

I'd be very interested in hearing about any place that uses a value as high as 10km, and the rationale.

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#265

Post by gm-conspiracy »

smileysteve wrote: post #22
techsupporter wrote: post #3

Forgive me if this is me being dense, but from an outsider's perspective I don't understand what makes Lyft any better than Uber. Neither company properly categorizes their drivers (as employees), both have a rather sizeable cut from fares, both depended on being basically illegal cabs--except for Uber Black, which uses licensed black car services--to get started, and neither has a financially viable business model.…

The key points are - CEO never blackmailed journalists - No major revelations of sexual harassment - ~~No major revelations of political support~~ Related to core business - Surge Limit has prevented complaints about emergency pricing vs Uber. - Lyft takes a lower commission capped at 20%/25% - Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). Uber's tip policy encourages cash, which is an often cited comp…

You forgot human rights abuses.

I have encountered Lyft drivers that refuse to work for Uber for such reasons.

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#266

Post by dnautics »

mahyarm wrote: post #204
orange_county wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't explain how the driver gets less money when they pick up more pool riders? The rates goes down when they pick up the 2nd and 3rd rider, but then at the same time they are gaining more fares. So shouldn't that make up for the rate drop? It's pretty obvious why doing pool for one rider is a huge loss, but I'm not quite sure how it is more of a loss if a 2nd or 3rd rider joins in.

Uber & lyft is really bad at showing how it works because the system is over complicated. The way it looks is they are getting ripped off all of the time and so they don't like it. http://therideshareguy.com/how-does-uberpool-pricing-work/ Basically they are paid the same way as an UberX ride, by mile and by time, at a lower rate (0.75/mile vs 0.85/mile). But they are also paid for going out of their way to pick up n…

yeah it was a source of major frustration for me trying to teach other drivers that lyft line was actually better for them, eventually I gave up and said look if you don't like it just turn it off -thats' fine more line rides for me.

I don't know if this is still the case, It's even better because if you get a line at surge/primetime, the whole line is at the elevated rate, whether or not the subsequent riders are. One time, I got a three successive rides that extended a 150% primetime ride on lyft for about an hour and 20 minutes (I'm sure they fixed it so that doesn't happen anymore, ha).

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#267

Post by gm-conspiracy »

IanCal wrote: post #181
lightcatcher wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you were running Uber, would you increase your prices to pay a more fair wage even if it makes you more expensive than competitors? Would you expect to stay in business if you offered a commodity like transport at 20% higher prices than competitors?

Is it a particularly ethical standpoint to say "I don't pay my driver's a fair wage, but if I did then I wouldn't make money!"? I would rather have companies be forced to pay a reasonable minimum wage and compete by improving the service or efficiency, not just pushing the employees to work for less and less.

Contractors, not employees.

I assume these drivers are all cutting checks to the IRS?

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#268

Post by gm-conspiracy »

lordnacho wrote: post #237
freyr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). One of the reasons I don't like Lyft. How about this system: pay the drivers a fair wage up front, so they don't need to subsist on the generosity of strangers. If they get great ratings, you can give them a bonus.

It's not a great system, tipping the way it's done in cabs, restaurants, and "door-opening" (I only see those guys when I'm in America, no idea what to call them). But people have come to rely on it, and there'd be fewer people working those types of jobs if there wasn't some extra money from the customers. If there was a collective way to tell the tipping industry to change, I think a lot of people would be for it.…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(profession)

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#269

Post by kobeya »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #176
trustfundbaby wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also helps that Europe and its cities are ... smaller.

I don't know if you're thinking about area or population, but by either metric London is bigger than any city in the US, and has a much better public transport system.

san Jose alone is about 1/3 of the size of the entire London metropolitan area, and that's just one part (albeit a big one) of the south bay area.

Re: Lyft Is Said to Seek New Funding as Its Rival Uber Stumbles

#270

Post by gm-conspiracy »

mdorazio wrote: post #41
jbw976 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the in app tipping that lyft provides is what seals the deal for me. the drivers are performing a service for me and having an integrated way to enhance their compensation is really nice. a lot of the drivers have a hard time making a good living especially considering vehicle related costs are all on their shoulders. I'm happy to have a 1-click way to give them a bit extra. I've never understood why uber doesn't let…

Counterpoint: one of the reasons I prefer Uber is that it doesn't allow or encourage in-app tipping. Tipping sucks, is economically dysfunctional, and socially awkward. If the drivers aren't making enough from base fares then the fares need to go up - it's not my job to be a charity.

Why give money when you can give "stars"?
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