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Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

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Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#101

Post by MaysonL »

gydfi wrote: post #79
peteretep wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geo-engineering projects could not > come too soon And also, treating climate-change deniers like a cross between holocaust deniers and flat-earthers can't come soon enough.

Right, because of all that obvious evidence of stuff that hasn't happened yet but might.

All that evidence that hasn't nappened yet, like Arctic ice melting, drunken trees, pest and other plant and animal ranges moving poleward and upward, growing seasons starting earlier in spring, etc. Oh wait, those have happened…

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#102

Post by Pxtl »

greggman wrote: post #84
hackuser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the common sentiment is 'the best time to take action was 40 years ago. The absolute limit was 20 years ago. There's no stopping it now My impression is that this is the latest fallback position intended to stop/delay us from acting (I don't know that the parent commenter intends it that way; this isn't a criticism of them). In rough order: 1) There is no global warming 2) There is global warming, but it's not caus…

I'm curious what you expect people to do and what you're doing yourself. I worry about climate change and so do most of my friends but I see ZERO action on any of our parts. Example: Nearly all my friends FLEW to GDC this week, many of them that's a HUGE amount of CO2 added to the atmosphere just so we can have fun, network and party. Then we go to BBQ and hamburger restaurants and eat lots of beef which we're told w…

I bike to work and I'm a vegetarian. Many of my friends are similarly inclined.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#103

Post by 2_listerine_pls »

lend000 wrote: post #41

Geo-engineering projects could not come too soon. Because of how grand they are in scale, they don't seem to get much attention from the mainstream scientific community, but it seems feasible technologically (albeit expensive) to put forth major projects to reflect sunlight over deserts and capture significant amounts of carbon from power plants and oceans, amongst numerous other creative approaches. https://en.wikip…

I am sure it's possible to engineer particles as a space pollutant to shield earth from some unwanted wavelength but allow the wanted ones.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#104

Post by peteretep »

refurb wrote: post #85
peteretep wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geo-engineering projects could not > come too soon And also, treating climate-change deniers like a cross between holocaust deniers and flat-earthers can't come soon enough.

Jesus! I'm glad people don't take that stand in other areas of science. If we did that 20 years ago we never would have found out that ulcers are caused by bacteria. "Ulcers aren't caused by stress, they are caused by bacteria!" "Heresy!! String him up!!!"

Bacteria-ulcers weren't proven by people who really really really wanted them to be true, they were proven by a doctor, using (fairly unconventional) scientific methods.

If you've got compelling historical sources for holocaust denial or compelling scientific evidence against climate change, let's see it.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#105

Post by mirimir »

lisper wrote: post #59
neotek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a 5 - 8 degree rise catastrophic though? Genuine question.

Depends on what you consider catastrophic. 5-8C means you lose both the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps, so you get 60m (200 ft) sea-level rise, so you totally lose all the coastal cities, and the current round of civilization is almost certainly done for. But homo sapiens will probably survive, and so civilization will probably eventually be rebuilt. It won't be the end of life on earth under any circumstances. Act…

Right, you get 5-8 C (9-14 F) increase in global mean temperature. That mostly translates, I think, to temperature increases during winter, and at higher latitudes. Biomes will both be shifted poleward and warped, and that will happen faster than some component species can adapt.

The good news is that runaway greenhouse warming won't evaporate oceans and bake out CO2 from surface rocks :)

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#106

Post by hackuser »

greggman wrote: post #84
hackuser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the common sentiment is 'the best time to take action was 40 years ago. The absolute limit was 20 years ago. There's no stopping it now My impression is that this is the latest fallback position intended to stop/delay us from acting (I don't know that the parent commenter intends it that way; this isn't a criticism of them). In rough order: 1) There is no global warming 2) There is global warming, but it's not caus…

I'm curious what you expect people to do and what you're doing yourself. I worry about climate change and so do most of my friends but I see ZERO action on any of our parts. Example: Nearly all my friends FLEW to GDC this week, many of them that's a HUGE amount of CO2 added to the atmosphere just so we can have fun, network and party. Then we go to BBQ and hamburger restaurants and eat lots of beef which we're told w…

Call your elected representative; do it now. The answer is through government.

If we paid the true cost of carbon, probably we'd fly less, fuel would be re-engineered, and other forms of transport would be developed and expanded.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#107

Post by Karunamon »

idlewords wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a 60 meter high seawall around pretty much all of the country would be a bit problematic material wise alone (you'd have to chop down a couple of major mountains, assuming you have those), coupled with the slight problem of then having to get rid of all the water landing in your nice new bathtub by precipitation. A seawall isn't just a wall, it's more like a dike if it is to survive and that means it has a wi…

BUILD THE WALL

Please don't do this here.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#108

Post by AnOscelot »

anigbrowl wrote: post #72
hackuser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the common sentiment is 'the best time to take action was 40 years ago. The absolute limit was 20 years ago. There's no stopping it now My impression is that this is the latest fallback position intended to stop/delay us from acting (I don't know that the parent commenter intends it that way; this isn't a criticism of them). In rough order: 1) There is no global warming 2) There is global warming, but it's not caus…

6) It's all part of God's plan That sounds like a cheap shot but the sad reality is that there are quite a few people who seriously believe that this is part of the rapture/apocalypse/tribulation revealed in Bible prophecy and that attempts to prevent or even mitigate against it are satanic. Of course that's completely bonkers but we have to remember that there's a significant contingent invested in the idea that the…

If anyone has people like this in your life, the Bible gives you a little ammo for changing their mind. First of all, mankind was given stewardship over the Earth. God expects people to not trash the place.

Secondly, Jesus was quite emphatic that no one would know the day & time of his return. He did say there would be warning signs, but also said it would still be a surprise. If someone wants to destroy the world in order to push for the Second Coming, then they're on the verge of being a false prophet as described by Christ. Not to mention: why take the risk when this might not be the time of his return?

I'm personally not a believer now, but I was raised in a very conservative Christian family. These arguments sometimes have an effect on my friends and family still in the church.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#109

Post by alex_anglin »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #103
lend000 wrote: post #41

Geo-engineering projects could not come too soon. Because of how grand they are in scale, they don't seem to get much attention from the mainstream scientific community, but it seems feasible technologically (albeit expensive) to put forth major projects to reflect sunlight over deserts and capture significant amounts of carbon from power plants and oceans, amongst numerous other creative approaches. https://en.wikip…

I am sure it's possible to engineer particles as a space pollutant to shield earth from some unwanted wavelength but allow the wanted ones.

It's also possible to reduce the use of carbon based fuels. We know how to do that.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#110

Post by refurb »

peteretep wrote: post #104
refurb wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus! I'm glad people don't take that stand in other areas of science. If we did that 20 years ago we never would have found out that ulcers are caused by bacteria. "Ulcers aren't caused by stress, they are caused by bacteria!" "Heresy!! String him up!!!"

Bacteria-ulcers weren't proven by people who really really really wanted them to be true, they were proven by a doctor, using (fairly unconventional) scientific methods. If you've got compelling historical sources for holocaust denial or compelling scientific evidence against climate change, let's see it.

or compelling scientific evidence against climate change

Oh please. No one would even try in this political climate. As you said "don't believe in climate change? you are a nazi".

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