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Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

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Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#71
post #3

Maybe I'm just now getting aware of it but I just recently learned of Godot[1] and now this as well. Seems like we have the chance to replace Unity as the "Community" game engine with a free open source version. [1] https://godotengine.org/

I sure hope so. I think one of the barriers may be the compatibility with a lot of the devices coming out in VR. For example, to build something for the Hololens, Unity3D is the only option. IIRC, for Oculus, the only OSS game engine that targets it is Torque3D. I'm not sure how much cooperation these engines need from the manufacturers to begin targeting them, but that can be hard for OSS projects to do.

VR is so minor market at the moment that it's just not worth to support in general engine with limited resources.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think importance of tooling is highly subjective, depends on your habits and workflow. Some people need to have an editor like Unity, others just want to create their whole game in code, e.g. www.randygaul.net/2017/02/24/writing-a-game-engine-in-2017/

That guy says his must-have feature of c++ is operator/function overloading. That seems an odd choice to me. I have been a c++ developer for over a decade. I would have leaned more towards it being a necessary evil.

Must-have necessary evil :)

Anyway, I do not agree with all the stuff in the linked article. He was just used as an example for need of programmer-focused engines.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#73
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider that an advantage, simple things have their appeal. Unity without any 3rd party plugins is very basic, and a lot of these community engines are at the same level.

I was arguing from the point of view of those that think "engine == code" and disregard these engines without everything else that surrounds the eco-system or understanding of how many studios work, which is quite common in the HN Web & FOSS culture. Good luck with your project.

Yup, back when I was in games our ~70 person team was about 10 developers and the rest were artists/animators/designers.

Tooling cannot be understated and most of our goal was to be a force multiplier on the majority of the team who actually do the creative work. That's what these engines bring and while hobby engines are nifty they're not going to be making strides into that space until they have a compelling tooling story.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure hope so. I think one of the barriers may be the compatibility with a lot of the devices coming out in VR. For example, to build something for the Hololens, Unity3D is the only option. IIRC, for Oculus, the only OSS game engine that targets it is Torque3D. I'm not sure how much cooperation these engines need from the manufacturers to begin targeting them, but that can be hard for OSS projects to do.

VR is so minor market at the moment that it's just not worth to support in general engine with limited resources.

That makes sense. Just out of curiosity, to my point above, how much cooperation from the manufacturer of different systems (Hololens/Xbox/Playstation) do you need to be able to target builds for them?

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#75
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was arguing from the point of view of those that think "engine == code" and disregard these engines without everything else that surrounds the eco-system or understanding of how many studios work, which is quite common in the HN Web & FOSS culture. Good luck with your project.

Yup, back when I was in games our ~70 person team was about 10 developers and the rest were artists/animators/designers. Tooling cannot be understated and most of our goal was to be a force multiplier on the majority of the team who actually do the creative work. That's what these engines bring and while hobby engines are nifty they're not going to be making strides into that space until they have a compelling toolin…

It is said that restrictions boost creativity and I've seen artists do amazing things even though their tools were complete crap. Question is how important tools really are. I would argue that vanilla Unity tools are nothing special and yet it's the most used engine in the world and people make amazing games with it.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR is so minor market at the moment that it's just not worth to support in general engine with limited resources.

That makes sense. Just out of curiosity, to my point above, how much cooperation from the manufacturer of different systems (Hololens/Xbox/Playstation) do you need to be able to target builds for them?

From experience (old gen and next gen consoles) there is 0 cooperation from manufacturer that you really need, other than available SDK and docs. Yes there are bugs in compilers and the consoles themselves (firmware, HW) but you can usually work around them.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#77
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proprietary, closed, vertically integrated tooling in Unity and Unreal are what make them such terrible tools for use in a professional development environment. All of the best programming tools are free, open source software. Yet somehow we're meant to believe game programming is "special" in some way that it shouldn't use the same ecosystem as every other area of software development. Yeah, right.

Because the values of the game industry are rooted in the demoscene, commercialization of game related IP assets and consulting work related specific hardware and design knowledge, without any religion about freedom of tooling, this is what most FOSS advocates fail to understand about the industry.

My opinion is quite similar to yours. I have never worked in videogames but my, uninformed, opinion has always been that open source videogames lag so much behind other types of open source programs because they require a lot of non-programmers to work. I don't think the complexity of the engines is the main problem, after all operating systems or compilers are also quite complex and critical software. So, what is so special about programming that makes people want to share their work for free? The only other field I think that has a similar collaboration culture would be academic research.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they allow you to keep your game's source closed. From their FAQ: > Yes, you can sell your game without any constraints as long as you use the binary version distributed on the website. If you modify and recompile the engine yourself, you can still sell your product, but you have to open the source code of your game and the modifications made to Xenko as stated in the GPL license.

Yes, binary release is not GPL. However the main advantage of open source engines for game developer is their source being opened so you can change it. I wished so many times I have access to Unity source in my dayjob. But in case of Xenko, if you modify it you have to publish the source code of your game - which is a no-go for most game companies.

> I wished so many times I have access to Unity source in my dayjob.

Wouldn't that be trap though in practice? Everytime a new Unity version comes around you would have to patch/test your changes back in.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenko looks very professional, pity it's GPL.

Apparently they allow you to keep your game's source closed. From their FAQ: > Yes, you can sell your game without any constraints as long as you use the binary version distributed on the website. If you modify and recompile the engine yourself, you can still sell your product, but you have to open the source code of your game and the modifications made to Xenko as stated in the GPL license.

I spoke to a Xenko rep at GDC yesterday. They are having their commercial release "very soon" --which will feature more useful licensing options.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, back when I was in games our ~70 person team was about 10 developers and the rest were artists/animators/designers. Tooling cannot be understated and most of our goal was to be a force multiplier on the majority of the team who actually do the creative work. That's what these engines bring and while hobby engines are nifty they're not going to be making strides into that space until they have a compelling toolin…

It is said that restrictions boost creativity and I've seen artists do amazing things even though their tools were complete crap. Question is how important tools really are. I would argue that vanilla Unity tools are nothing special and yet it's the most used engine in the world and people make amazing games with it.

Oh please, that's the lamest excuse I've seen to skimp on tooling. Abusing your users with poor tools doesn't win you anything.

Self imposed constraints can (and has in many cases) achieved the same thing.

From a technical perspective unity's tools are nothing special, however they work well for non technical users. In the same way UI/UxD for Linux has been a disaster understanding production needs is a complete different space that few engines get right.

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