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A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#51

Post by sverige »

pizza wrote: post #15
mc32 wrote: post #6

So, what they really mean is that they want less globalization... rather then less capitalism... and we know many older voters also voted for less globalization... so it's like both young and old, stung by globalization and financial crises want to retrench?

Why would they want greater capitalism with less globalization? Wouldn't that be de facto less capitalist?

The opposing forces are not globalism vs. capitalism, but rather globalism vs. sovereign statism. It's more about the form of government than the mode of the economy.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#52

Post by gydfi »

Like most arguments about "isms" that do not have a single, rigorous definition accepted by everybody, debates about "capitalism" are pretty useless.

Karl Marx means one thing by the word, Ayn Rand means another, most other people in between have other ideas (or vague fuzzy feelings) about it, and yet everybody talks as if their own idea matches someone else's.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#53

Post by nostrademons »

mc32 wrote: post #6

So, what they really mean is that they want less globalization... rather then less capitalism... and we know many older voters also voted for less globalization... so it's like both young and old, stung by globalization and financial crises want to retrench?

That doesn't follow from the article. What it said, explicitly, was they want less crony capitalism.

Globalization itself isn't bad. Globalization where the playing field is rigged so that you need to be a billion-dollar corporation to participate in the spoils is.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#54

Post by friedman23 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #36
friedman23 wrote: post #3

Most people do not even understand what capitalism is thanks to the term becoming conflated with greed. And as the poll shows, not supporting capitalism doesn't mean supporting socialism.

Keynesian demand side capitalism has proved to be great. Unregulated supply side economics appears to lead to massive exploitation and monopolies. That being said socialism and capitalism work together everyday in America. See highways, education, plumbing, etc. It has been argued that Socialism/government regulation is needed for Capitalism to work optimally.

If we are going to call every government with a highway system and a free healthcare system socialist the word becomes meaningless.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#57

Post by friedman23 »

Retric wrote: post #40
friedman23 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically property rights were defended by the owner.

Unless you mean before written history then no. Governments have been mediating property disputes at least as far as the written word and likely though the last 100,000+ years.

Do you believe that when we all lived in huts that the feudal lord would send out knights to defend you if your neighbor decided to take your property?

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#59

Post by Mikeb85 »

dnautics wrote: post #13
_m8fo wrote: post #4

In my experience, people who criticize this article are probably benefiting from "capitalism" (the majority of people on here, I reckon, do), meanwhile those struggling from inequality, not being here, will fail to have their voice heard. And so the echo chamber ensues. That being said, capitalism and having things like free healthcare and education are hardly mutually exclusive. So I think the article's conclusion,…

alright. I'll bite. I have made almost no money in the past year, and my bank account is nearly zero. I had a relatively middle class upbringing (but for reasons I'd rather not go into) my family is currently bankrupt. Capitalism (in the free markets sense) is great. The problem is that gobs of money are stolen from poor people like me by the government through various processes, the biggest of which is inflation. Th…

> the biggest of which is inflation

Inflation is a mechanism to prevent the rich from hoarding cash. The flipside is that people who aren't putting their money to use lose value.

Without inflation, the rich would hoard with impunity.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#60

Post by edblarney »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #34

The cold war branding of anything communism/socialism as evil is being seen through as rhetoric, and more people are seeing merit of using blends of governance than pure free market. People 50 years ago had to support one system of face real consequences. We can now debate the merit of concepts like "privatise luxury, socialise necessity" without being a 'commie bastard'. With the irony being socialist policy was far…

"The cold war branding of anything communism/socialism as evil is being seen through as rhetoric"

I can hardly believe that anyone who was alive during the 'cold war' would ever say that.

I grew up in an immigrant community in Canada, and most of my friends fled those disastrous, oppressive and totalitarian 'communist paradises' all over E. Europe, China, Vietnam, Cuba - and also - Sweden, by the way. Nordic countries were extremely socialist during the 1950's to mid 1980's.

If you were to try to say this in front of my friend's parents, they'd 'trigger', and kick you right out of the house in anger.

My uncle escaped Communist Hungary as a boy, literally, at night, running through the forest with soldiers chasing he and his mother.

I also remember the very real threat of a nuclear holocaust, in the 1970's to late 1980's it was a very, very real and tangible things.

You can try to 'debate', that's all fine, but communist utopian (read: dystopian) ideals seemed pushed by young naive people in every generation. It's almost as though they don't grasp the lessons of history.

There'll always be need for 'constant vigilance' against oppression by capital, fleeced consumers etc. - but socialism and especially communism are unmitigated disasters.

Communists are definitely 'dirty'. They represent, in reality - the world's greatest movement of mass murder and oppression. The paradox of the constant attraction to communism lies in their apparent goodwill: hey, who wouldn't want 'equality' and 'food for everyone' , yada, yada? Sounds great! Reality is a little harder and sometimes takes time to grasp.

"privatise luxury, socialise necessity". Defining 'luxury and necessity' is the root of that statement.

In Poland, just before the fall of communism, they had only Vanilla, Chocolate and 'Pink' ice-cream, because anything else was bourgeois (i.e. a luxury), and banned. In Bulgaria, there was no ice-cream. :)

Food is definitely on some level a 'necessity' and we definitely have not socialized that. Maybe we can make sure everyone gets healthcare without socializing too hard as well.

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