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A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#31

Post by ehnto »

_m8fo wrote: post #4

In my experience, people who criticize this article are probably benefiting from "capitalism" (the majority of people on here, I reckon, do), meanwhile those struggling from inequality, not being here, will fail to have their voice heard. And so the echo chamber ensues. That being said, capitalism and having things like free healthcare and education are hardly mutually exclusive. So I think the article's conclusion,…

I find myself between the two ecosystems quite often and I have to admit I find it hard to know how to represent both sides fairly in discussions. It is definitely not a bipartisan issue. There is no us vs them, it is simply one big group of people where those on the bottom of the system are struggling to affect the smaller changes needed to make life more sustainable for them.

They aren't big changes either, small incremental policy changes make huge differences to individuals. Those individuals just don't have the capacity after work, or the connections, to advocate effectively for themselves.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#33

Post by twblalock »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #18

Did we not learn that Capitalism failed a long time ago? Why else will we have an Insurance system that is deeply incentivized to not cover your conditions? Why else will we have an Education system that is deeply incentivized to profit off your education and put you in debt for your life?

You may not like capitalism, but it is an indisputable fact that capitalist societies have higher standards of living, including for the poor, than societies that use any other economic system. By that standard, it's more successful than any other system, and hardly a failure, despite what other problems is has.

By the way, the problems you describe about insurance (I assume you mean health insurance) and the high cost of education are not characteristics of most capitalist economies. The United States is an outlier in those areas. Plenty of other capitalist countries have universal health care and free education. Plenty of others have universal health care and non-free education. Only the US has the double-whammy of expensive health care and expensive education.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#34

Post by Gustomaximus »

The cold war branding of anything communism/socialism as evil is being seen through as rhetoric, and more people are seeing merit of using blends of governance than pure free market. People 50 years ago had to support one system of face real consequences.

We can now debate the merit of concepts like "privatise luxury, socialise necessity" without being a 'commie bastard'. With the irony being socialist policy was far more in place and accepted 60 years ago when people were so anti-Russia and communism/socialism.

I really hope nations leaders can hear this because if they keep pushing people down with income disparity, access to a reasonable living and opportunity the pressure will build up for a bigger push-back, and potentially something dangerous if driven by anger/desperation rather than a common will to succeed.

I feel this is one of many strengths of democracy where it should allow pressure values to pop safely and society realign much earlier and easily than other government styles.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#35

Post by twblalock »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #21
friedman23 wrote: post #3

Most people do not even understand what capitalism is thanks to the term becoming conflated with greed. And as the poll shows, not supporting capitalism doesn't mean supporting socialism.

To be fair, people who understand capitalism will still debate what it is.

That's why this poll isn't very useful.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#36

Post by nickthemagicman »

friedman23 wrote: post #3

Most people do not even understand what capitalism is thanks to the term becoming conflated with greed. And as the poll shows, not supporting capitalism doesn't mean supporting socialism.

Keynesian demand side capitalism has proved to be great.

Unregulated supply side economics appears to lead to massive exploitation and monopolies.

That being said socialism and capitalism work together everyday in America. See highways, education, plumbing, etc.

It has been argued that Socialism/government regulation is needed for Capitalism to work optimally.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#37

Post by waisbrot »

twblalock wrote: post #26

This is like those surveys that show a majority of Americans oppose Obamacare, but a majority favor almost all of the individual policies that comprise Obamacare when the word "Obamacare" does not appear in the survey. What I would like to see is a survey that asks people their opinions on certain characteristics of capitalism, without mentioning the word "capitalism." I think the results would be very different.

But it's interesting to see that "capitalism" is becoming a dirty word, when in the cold-war era it was the opposite of "communism" which was a synonym for "evil".

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#38

Post by _m8fo »

dsacco wrote: post #20
_m8fo wrote: post #4

In my experience, people who criticize this article are probably benefiting from "capitalism" (the majority of people on here, I reckon, do), meanwhile those struggling from inequality, not being here, will fail to have their voice heard. And so the echo chamber ensues. That being said, capitalism and having things like free healthcare and education are hardly mutually exclusive. So I think the article's conclusion,…

Your first paragraph manages to sort of dismiss both sides without really engaging with them. No one wants to be typecasted, even if they have legitimate biases. There's plenty more nuance to contribute to the discussion than simply characterizing most of the participants the same way Upton Sinclair would: by their salaries. I think you do raise a legitimate point about echo chambers, but how does that observation on…

Hmm, you make some good points. I accept that I may have not contributed to the conversation as much as I would like (though "contribution" wasn't really my intention, but your point stands).

However, I will say that the latter part of your post is the kind of comment that I was expecting, for better or worse.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#39

Post by thinkpad20 »

dnautics wrote: post #13
_m8fo wrote: post #4

In my experience, people who criticize this article are probably benefiting from "capitalism" (the majority of people on here, I reckon, do), meanwhile those struggling from inequality, not being here, will fail to have their voice heard. And so the echo chamber ensues. That being said, capitalism and having things like free healthcare and education are hardly mutually exclusive. So I think the article's conclusion,…

alright. I'll bite. I have made almost no money in the past year, and my bank account is nearly zero. I had a relatively middle class upbringing (but for reasons I'd rather not go into) my family is currently bankrupt. Capitalism (in the free markets sense) is great. The problem is that gobs of money are stolen from poor people like me by the government through various processes, the biggest of which is inflation. Th…

> Capitalism (in the free markets sense) is great. The problem is that gobs of money are stolen from poor people like me by the government

How much can the government be stealing from you if you have no money? The government is in a position to help you, by providing you with social services, with financial benefits, by providing police to protect you, not to mention debt forgiveness (you mentioned your family is in bankruptcy). None of these things come from free market capitalism; they come from socialist policies intended to help those at a disadvantage. And there should be more of that -- health care, education, etc. Of course, corruption and inefficiency in government exists and is a problem, but the ones stealing money from you are those at the top who are constantly seeking to pay less in taxes, do less to protect to the environment, lobby or contribute (aka bribe) to profit at the expense of public good, outsource or automate away their labor, etc. You mentioned the negative impact of common practices of bankers and Wall Street -- those kinds of things are natural consequence of free market activity.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#40

Post by Retric »

friedman23 wrote: post #30
pjmorris wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who enforces capitalist property rights?

Historically property rights were defended by the owner.

Unless you mean before written history then no. Governments have been mediating property disputes at least as far as the written word and likely though the last 100,000+ years.
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