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In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

bloomberg.com

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Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#271

Post by sedachv »

mbrumlow wrote: post #249
sedachv wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing Black drivers to accept X requests invalidates any claims Uber has about their drivers being independent contractors instead of employees.

I don't think that is a good reason to say they are employees. What happens when you look at it like this; A Uber driver must accept some % of request sent their way (any class), but if you want to be sent uber black request then you must have an appropriate car. I feel like you are looking at it from a top down view, vs a bottom up view. I am not saying ether view is right or wrong. I just find it hard to follow the…

> I just find it hard to follow the logic to how that makes them employees.

The IRS has guidelines: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/appx_d_irs_ic_test.html

Arguments for drivers as employees:

Behavioral Control 1a (the relevant argument I am making), 1b (Black drivers have specific types of cars), 1f

Type of Relationship 11

> What I feel like uber has done is automated the process of hiring contractors for on the spot jobs.

That is not true because Uber dictates the pricing. In fact you as the passenger are not hiring the contractor. If you look at it from a per-ride-transaction perspective it is actually one more reason why Uber drivers are employees (Financial Control 7, Uber limits the extent to which a driver can realize a profit on an individual ride).

Looking at Uber drivers as being contracted by the passengers does not make sense.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#272

Post by danielrhodes »

I've been reading through these comments and find it quite interesting because both the driver and Kalanick are correct, but as is usual in these confrontations, they weren't communicating properly with each other.

On Kalanick's side, he is entirely correct that Uber has to compete in a very competitive market and most of that competition is in price. If Uber didn't compete on price, they would sign their own death warrant.

On the driver's side, he took a risk in going for an Uber black car and he probably wasn't fully aware of that risk. He seems justified in feeling upset at how exposed he is to market forces that are outside of his control.

Given that, perhaps Uber should better inform drivers of that risk and offer some way that drivers can buffer themselves from that risk. For example, Uber could offer drivers some sort of insurance against rate changes. This would incentivize Uber to be more careful about rate changes since they would pay a penalty if the delta is too big and it would stabilize the rate for drivers -- there are a lot of variables to play with here to make the outcome mutually beneficial.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#273

Post by hluska »

hsod wrote: post #101
chickenfries wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will probably be an unpopular opinion Well what do you know, at the time of writing this, it's the top comment! > The fact that the footage of him with two women wasn't cut out is frankly disgusting and a total invasion of his privacy. He didn't do anything wrong except flirt a bit. How tawdry of Bloomberg to show that material. It's relevant because he said things like this: “That’s kind of how I roll. I make…

> I think I would be okay with being filmed as long as it wasn't secret. Would you be OK with the video being published on a major news site?

If I happened to be CEO of a ~ $60 billion company, you're damned right that I'd be okay with Bloomberg publishing a video that brought both my character and competence into question.

There is no such thing as privacy when you get to be that big. And frankly, any leader competent enough to run a business that big should already know that.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#274

Post by zepto »

pjwal wrote: post #115
chickenfries wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say that? The camera looks like it's in a place where you should be able to see it. Either way, I don't think a conversation I have in the back of someone else's car is private.

Because I find it incredibly hard to believe that he would engage like this if he believed there was a possibility of the conversation being made public. Sure, I could be wrong, but I am of the camp that the driver will find legal repercussions to this.

You mean he only behaves this was when he thinks there are no witnesses?

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#275

Post by mikeash »

dkonofalski wrote: post #259
mikeash wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they refuse too many UberX fares, they'll be dumped. I'm sure Uber will argue that doesn't qualify as "forced," but it does to me.

That's not true with Uber Black. If you refuse an Uber X fare as an Uber Black driver, you're just marked as inactive temporarily (as you've declined a legitimate customer when there were no Uber Black customers). You can mark yourself as active again and take fares, but you are not forced to take Uber X fares as an Uber Black driver.

In that case I agree this is a non-issue. I was going from the comment earlier in the reply chain that said they'd get kicked out.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#276

Post by true_religion »

st3v3r wrote: post #246
computerex wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was clearly off duty. Being the CEO of a company like Uber is very difficult indeed. Surely the guy doesn't have to answer to literally every single person he meets 24/7 because he is the CEO. He deserves no personal free time?

Bullshit. He gets paid the big bucks for exactly that.

Nope, he get's the money because he founded a company and didn't immediately drive it into the ground.

Founders tend to maintain their seats at the table because they were the guys to originally build the table in the first place, and thus have political privilege.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#277

Post by jimmywanger »

jzl wrote: post #147
shruubi wrote: post #92

Honestly, as much as I don't like Kalanick and would love a reason to dislike him even more, to some degree I have to side with him on this situation. The footage with the girls, while incredibly awkward, is nothing more than a flirtatious conversation. Now, fair enough that the driver realises he has the CEO of Uber in his car and wants to talk about his situation as a driver, and I give props to Kalanick for actual…

> Sure, but keep in mind that in this situation he is a guy in his private life who has been blindsided and accused of ruining this guys life, with, what it seems like from other posts here, lies. Oh come on, he's the CEO of Uber and he took an Uber. Probably every single Uber driver in the country if not the world knows who he is. If he doesn't have an expectation of being recognized and asked about the business he…

> Oh come on, he's the CEO of Uber and he took an Uber.

And if he took a Lyft, a private limo, or drove himself, that would be even worse publicity. Right now no matter what he does he'll get people sniping at him, just like on this board. It's a herd mentality where you pick on perceived weakness, and it's always ugly.

> Probably every single Uber driver in the country if not the world knows who he is.

Does every single McDonald's worker in the world know what the CEO looks like?

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#278

Post by zepto »

computerex wrote: post #263
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Uber can hardly be faulted for playing the free market. Why? Seems like we should be holding them responsible in any way we can (even if that's just talking bad on a message board) for their bad actions. I don't know why we need to give them a pass on actions we don't deem moral just because it's legal.

I don't think the actions are immoral. If I were in his shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. This is how capitalism works.

Yes, and being shamed for immoral acts is how society works. Capitalists need to either take that into account, or accept the consequences.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#279

Post by unityByFreedom »

chickenfries wrote: post #252
unityByFreedom wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying a law was broken. That doesn't make it right. Clearly you would not be happy about it either. I think the interesting part of this story is not Kalanick's character based on the video, but rather the business decisions Uber made and how that has impacted their drivers. It appears Uber has benefited from people investing in fancy cars. If it was their business plan to mislead people into doing that an…

Whether I would be happy about it or not does not make it right either. My unpopular opinion is that this video is in the public interest and that matters more than whether or not the CEO of Uber is happy about it or feels like their privacy was violated.

I don't support the idea that our culture would be better off by sharing more videos of each other when we did not expect we'd be speaking to the entire world.

It's why we don't get to see Trump's or Congress' tax returns without some kind of court case.

If they're forced to do it by law, it will be forced upon you too, and boom, everyone knows all your financials.

We can decide what we want to add to our culture. Secret videos don't need to be part of it.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#280

Post by [deleted] »

seertaak wrote: post #46

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I actually thought the driver was exceedingly rude. He clearly took advantage of Kalanick being in the public eye, and thus a "target". Filming him without acknowledging it was totally immoral, it should reduce any fair person's bayesian priors as to the credibility of the driver. I'm no fan of Kalanick, but I thought he comported himself reasonably, taking the time to…

[deleted]
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