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Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

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Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#41

Post by chj »

vtange wrote: post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

> Chinese are racist because we have very limited experience with other, non-East Asian cultures.

I disagree with the assertion that Chinese are racist. You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai. I agree that Chinese are usually less sensitive about racial topics. They will carelessly call a foreigner "洋鬼子", but that's as bad as "Yankee" goes IMHO.

I've heard that in US Chinese guys usually date Chinese girls. But really can we blame that they are racists?

> When it comes to history, Chinese people again suffer from the box-syndrome - many are proud and fervently study Chinese history, and thus barely scrape the surface of world history.

Disagree again. If you really study Chinese history, you won't find much pride there.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#42

Post by idra »

chj wrote: post #41
vtange wrote: post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

> Chinese are racist because we have very limited experience with other, non-East Asian cultures. I disagree with the assertion that Chinese are racist. You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai. I agree that Chinese are usually less sensitive about racial topics. They will carelessly call a foreigner "洋鬼子", but that's as bad as "Yankee" goes IMHO. I'v…

> You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai

Very poorly chosen example, because "No Japanese and dogs" signs are incredibly common across China. [1][2][3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_Chi...

[2] http://beijingcream.com/2013/02/no-dogs-but-also-no-japanese...

[3] http://chinahopelive.net/2012/09/17/japanese-and-dog-no-near...

> They will carelessly call a foreigner "洋鬼子", but that's as bad as "Yankee" goes IMHO.

"洋鬼子" literally means "foreign devil". Are you serious?

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#43

Post by jimmywanger »

idra wrote: post #42
chj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese are racist because we have very limited experience with other, non-East Asian cultures. I disagree with the assertion that Chinese are racist. You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai. I agree that Chinese are usually less sensitive about racial topics. They will carelessly call a foreigner "洋鬼子", but that's as bad as "Yankee" goes IMHO. I'v…

> You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai Very poorly chosen example, because "No Japanese and dogs" signs are incredibly common across China. [1][2][3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_Chi... [2] http://beijingcream.com/2013/02/no-dogs-but-also-no-japanese... [3] http://chinahopelive.net/2012/09/17/japanese-and-dog-no-nea…

> "洋鬼子" literally means "foreign devil". Are you serious?

Way to not take connotations into account. If you take everything literally, you'll be offended everywhere.

I call some of my best friends "bastards". Am I implying that they're born out of wedlock?

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#44

Post by sandworm101 »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #33
vtange wrote: post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

You are so wrong. I am a hong king "chinese". I would say your way of thinking is what causing a lot of trouble. You says chinese is one race. You mean Hans. If not we are not of one race. You cannot have your culture hans and fighting Mongolian, tibetian, manuchuain ... all your thousand of years literally. Then suddenly they are chinese because in the last 100 years someone decided to occupy these people's land the…

Agreed. China is imho very diverse. Not as diverse as India, but certainly more than neighbouring nations. The government just don't like to admit it, instead promoting an image of unity in all things.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#45

Post by chvid »

I find it odd to that this document is on the frontpage of HN.

200+ pages, no clear summary, unclear what it is it? Other than appearantly it is confidential who has written it, seemingly academic and it is about Chinese and/or China being racists.

Where is this document from? And why was it written?

"Racist" is probably the most damning word that one can use in politics (here international politics) and can be used justify a great deal of wrong doing.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#46

Post by kirashogun »

Lol oh the cultural Marxists and SJWs are out in force today. Interesting how the paper says racial solidarity is a strength of China without recognising the current divisive identity politics played out in the US as a weakness.

Add some racial IQ data to this and then we will have real fireworks :)

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#47

Post by blusterXY »

padde wrote: post #39

As a person who has lived in China for nearly a decade, I have experienced racism first hand there. But actually it was, 99% of the time, racism that favored my white skin. Wherever I (or any other white foreigner I know) went, I had instant respect and was admired, without having to do anything to earn that respect. Why does the article, which seems well-researched, not mention this phenomenon at all? (Or maybe I've…

spotted the english lackey!

try starting a real business and see how it goes.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#48

Post by powerapple »

idra wrote: post #22

Although I mostly agree with your comment, I find the subtext of it (and especially the fact that you had to put "racism" in quotes, as if Chinese prejudice towards other races isn't actually racism) quite distasteful. Racism is racism, and "limited experience with other cultures" isn't an excuse for it. Update: I see you've reworded your post and removed the quotation marks, I appreciate it.

What is racism? Would you consider a shy person's attitude towards others racism? Would you consider a cat's attitude to a dog racism? Would you consider people from a remote village who never saw any other people in their life staring at new person racism? Would you consider a tribe in amazon shooting darts to intruders racism? People are naturally insecure, and these insecurity will lead them to behave un-socially in many ways. We are all born racists, that's how our instincts keep us alive. We feel safe towards "familiar" faces.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#49

Post by powerapple »

idra wrote: post #42
chj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese are racist because we have very limited experience with other, non-East Asian cultures. I disagree with the assertion that Chinese are racist. You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai. I agree that Chinese are usually less sensitive about racial topics. They will carelessly call a foreigner "洋鬼子", but that's as bad as "Yankee" goes IMHO. I'v…

> You will never see a restaurant in China that says "No ---- and dogs" except in early 20th century Shanghai Very poorly chosen example, because "No Japanese and dogs" signs are incredibly common across China. [1][2][3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_Chi... [2] http://beijingcream.com/2013/02/no-dogs-but-also-no-japanese... [3] http://chinahopelive.net/2012/09/17/japanese-and-dog-no-nea…

not really. Translation doesn't work that way. I think you can translate that into "foreign foxy man". Probably from the time westerns did business in China. I don't know for sure. But translation doesn't work that way. Sometimes you just cannot translate a word from one language to another. Especially names. It is a culture thing.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#50

Post by flukus »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #33
vtange wrote: post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

You are so wrong. I am a hong king "chinese". I would say your way of thinking is what causing a lot of trouble. You says chinese is one race. You mean Hans. If not we are not of one race. You cannot have your culture hans and fighting Mongolian, tibetian, manuchuain ... all your thousand of years literally. Then suddenly they are chinese because in the last 100 years someone decided to occupy these people's land the…

> You says chinese is one race. You mean Hans. If not we are not of one race. You cannot have your culture hans and fighting Mongolian, tibetian, manuchuain ... all your thousand of years literally. Then suddenly they are chinese because in the last 100 years someone decided to occupy these people's land then they are chinese.

That's pretty close to what happened in most European countries too. French, Italian and German only became unified cultures 100-200 years ago, based on the dominant culture of the rulers, I wouldn't expect China to be any different.

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