Live data from Hacker News

Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

gwern.net

31–40 of 75 posts

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#31
post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

About your last point, I think that is slowly improving, with more black athletes and business people living in China, racism against black people is probably subsiding, especially in bigger cities and among sports fans. Hopefully, as more Chinese traveling overseas, and China attracting more foreigners into the country, local populace are exposed to more diversity, and start to form their own opinions based on perso…

Exactly! With Stephon Marbury getting his own statue and museum in Beijing, I really think people's mindset will change.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#32
post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

Between this and http://shanghaiist.com/2015/11/19/study_says_china_least_hon... (many other references to this phenomenon such as https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/culture-matters-chinese-asian... and https://thelinguafranca.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/do-the-chin...), it doesn't make China look that fantastic.

Debating whether it's lying or "lying" seems a lot like debating whether it's racism or "racism."

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#33
post #19

I'm Chinese American. I won't claim to represent everyone and everything Chinese, here are my two cents. China is what happens when you enclose a really big population in a box. And this box is really comfortable; you have little incentive to go outside of it. You have the company of millions of other Chinese folk, and Chinese culture and its derivatives (to this day many of us see Korea and Japan as copies of Chines…

You are so wrong. I am a hong king "chinese". I would say your way of thinking is what causing a lot of trouble.

You says chinese is one race. You mean Hans. If not we are not of one race. You cannot have your culture hans and fighting Mongolian, tibetian, manuchuain ... all your thousand of years literally. Then suddenly they are chinese because in the last 100 years someone decided to occupy these people's land then they are chinese.

What is china? Heard of Great Wall. Why is there a Great Wall. Has the Qing emperor thought the Hans are not enemy to be killed and contained.

We may say you are European. But let us not kid ourselves when thing boiled down you are english, French, ...

We may say we are Soviet Union. Brotherhood ...

And these we are chinese under communism is shameful.

There are more than politics. But killing culture, suppressing people, ... I am ashame to be associated with this gang.

I know more than you, I love my poems from tong down to mao. I share my many dreams that one day we will kick this communist ass out and we will ....

But who are we. That is a question.

As to chinese minge with their own. Do you know all chinese education now has a foregein language and also most top guys descendent run. They do not feel comfortable with each other over there. Or here.

Btw, Korea and japan may get a bit from us. But like china people copy apple to make little rice does not mean they are American. A lot of our vocabulary is coming from japan. Chinese do not have the word for society.

We are all human. At least for now (well we are in the hacker group). We do not deny our heritage. But not recognise who you are ... you love nazi because you are germany, do you?

Let us be human first. And do not look at a black face and then say he is africn American. He is human first. He may come from a part of Africa you do not know. But do not think first he is an African.

I am not chinese. You are not as well.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#34
I'm not so certain what they're speaking of is racism as Americans know it. It may be a form of "culturism" (where a group believes "My culture is the best.")

I have a friend who was raised in Vietnam of pure mainland Chinese parents (from the diaspora). Educated in Chinese schools (there was a huge Chinese community in Saigon where the Chinese dominated business), he spoke primarily Chinese until the age of 14. In his 14th year, Chinese schools were forced by the Vietnamese government to use the Vietnamese language in all classes, so he had to learn formal Vietnamese, and to read, write and speak Vietnamese in, say, geography class.

In summary we have an individual who

- culturally is classical Chinese,

- was born in Vietnam,

- is a naturalized US citizen,

- whose Chinese cultural habits and language date from the time of his parents' migration (circa 1920's) and are classical (non-Mandarin) Chinese,

- whose Vietnamese language and cultural skills are weaker, dating from middle school on,

- who also took English as a foreign language beginning in middle school,

- who also learned Mandarin so he could speak to his brother's new wife, a mainland Chinese woman.

Anyway, he worked in an office in the USA with mainland Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, and the usual mishmash of other Americans. Astonishingly, each of the Chinese groups, and the Vietnamese group, treated him as an outsider. With the exception of the Vietnamese, these groups tended to promote from within and to prefer their own group in inter-office politics. He went so far as, at one point, to specifically inquire into people's beliefs and was surprised to find that there was _no_ group that accepted him as a member, except the Americans! This despite the fact that everyone liked him.

Recently, for reasons unknown to me, he has become a flaming pro-mainland Chinese proponent vis-a-vis the USA, despite having no direct ties to the current Chinese culture or government. Many times I've had to point out to him that the only thing he truly is, and the only culture that truly accepts him, is "American".

I really got his goat by pointing out that he has little in common with mainland Chinese, certainly neither language nor culture, and that he is to them, culturally the equivalent of their grandfather or even great-grandfather.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#35
post #18

Chinese people have been discriminated against for so many years since 1840s, yes, we Chinese people are racists, please keep a distance with China. Do not let China be infected by political correctness and "holy war". When extremists attack your noble Westerners, they are terrorists, but when they attack the Chinese people they become "freedom fighters". interesting, lol

From my comments earlier in the thread it's pretty clear that I understand why many Chinese have the viewpoint that outside influence is bad. However, I think your viewpoint is way too extreme. China isn't some passive country now that is just sitting around being attacked by extremists/freedom fighters, but China is actively making aggressive moves towards many other countries. For example, China has threatened Taiw…

You need to understand that situation is changing rapidly. Many Taiwanese live happily on mainland China, and have a lot of mainland friends. They even enjoy a lot of privileges that ordinary Chinese people can't have, simply because of they are Tai-Relatives.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#36
post #18

Chinese people have been discriminated against for so many years since 1840s, yes, we Chinese people are racists, please keep a distance with China. Do not let China be infected by political correctness and "holy war". When extremists attack your noble Westerners, they are terrorists, but when they attack the Chinese people they become "freedom fighters". interesting, lol

From my comments earlier in the thread it's pretty clear that I understand why many Chinese have the viewpoint that outside influence is bad. However, I think your viewpoint is way too extreme. China isn't some passive country now that is just sitting around being attacked by extremists/freedom fighters, but China is actively making aggressive moves towards many other countries. For example, China has threatened Taiw…

yes, my viewpoint is way too extreme, I just comment about Westerners' hypocrisy as the way some of Westerners did to China people. Threantened Taiwan? lol, Please find out the economic data of China-Taiwan trade, China maintains trade deficit with Taiwan, but maintains trade surplus for most countries, including the United States, Japan, and EU. And I hope you can figure out how the Taiwanese are treated in mainland(China). By the way, Taiwan is the part of China(ROC), Taiwan is part of China, which is recognized by the UN. It's a matter of internal affairs.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#37
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my comments earlier in the thread it's pretty clear that I understand why many Chinese have the viewpoint that outside influence is bad. However, I think your viewpoint is way too extreme. China isn't some passive country now that is just sitting around being attacked by extremists/freedom fighters, but China is actively making aggressive moves towards many other countries. For example, China has threatened Taiw…

yes, my viewpoint is way too extreme, I just comment about Westerners' hypocrisy as the way some of Westerners did to China people. Threantened Taiwan? lol, Please find out the economic data of China-Taiwan trade, China maintains trade deficit with Taiwan, but maintains trade surplus for most countries, including the United States, Japan, and EU. And I hope you can figure out how the Taiwanese are treated in mainland…

Taiwan (The Republic of China) is an independent country with its own government, currency and international relations. Any deals between Mainland China and Taiwan are international affairs.

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#38
post #22

Although I mostly agree with your comment, I find the subtext of it (and especially the fact that you had to put "racism" in quotes, as if Chinese prejudice towards other races isn't actually racism) quite distasteful. Racism is racism, and "limited experience with other cultures" isn't an excuse for it. Update: I see you've reworded your post and removed the quotation marks, I appreciate it.

[deleted]

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#39
As a person who has lived in China for nearly a decade, I have experienced racism first hand there. But actually it was, 99% of the time, racism that favored my white skin. Wherever I (or any other white foreigner I know) went, I had instant respect and was admired, without having to do anything to earn that respect. Why does the article, which seems well-researched, not mention this phenomenon at all?

(Or maybe I've missed it, I've only read the summary and a few paragraphs that contained the term "white")

Re: Strategic Consequences of Chinese Racism: Strategic Asymmetry for the USA (2013) [pdf]

#40
post #3

Interesting how often the perceived racial equality of the USA comes up as an advantage over China in terms of their perception in the developing world - I wonder if the policies of the Trump administration are in the process of tipping that balance the other way.

Agreed. Trump and America in recent years are doing major damage to USA's soft-power advantages over China with respects to racism and racial equality:

> Fourth, the message of the United States should be: We are better than the Chinese for Africa. We will assist you with economic aid to offset what you receive from China. In sum, culturally, socially, and politically, the United States is better, citizens are equal, racial equality, and civil rights are recognized.

Post reply on HN