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SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

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Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#331

Post by Retric »

avmich wrote: post #328
Retric wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I am not a rocket guy. However, the minimum delta V to land on the moon is ~1.72 km/s, and you need another 1.72 km/s to get back into orbit + some safety factor ~2.2-2.4 km/s. By comparison it takes ~8km/s to get from LEO to low moon orbit and back to earth. Though you can reduce this by how hard to hit the earth's atmosphere. So, having fuel to land and take off from the moon is not that much worse than gettin…

> By comparison it takes ~8km/s to get from Earth LEO to Moon LEO No, from Earth LEO some 3.1 km/s will get you to TLO, and then some ~1 km/s will take you to Moon low orbit, so total about 4(+) km/s. 8 km/s is an approximate budget for a round-trip between low orbits.

Sorry, butchered that. I was trying to say the figures are less exact depending on how hard you want to hit the earths upper atmosphere. ~8.2km/s if you want to end up in earth LEO ~8km/s if you want to get back to the earth. You can also save a little if your sending an unmanned craft and don't care how long it takes or skip low moon orbit.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#332

Post by peteretep »

gozur88 wrote: post #325
zardo wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they only sell you a ticket if you pulled yourself up out of the slums by your own bootstraps. No old money allowed.

What's your point?

Being born wealthy doesn't require much expended effort from the recipient of the wealth.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#333

Post by avmich »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #302
sidlls wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, but let's have some perspective, please. SpaceX is the beneficiary of decades of research in engineering and basic science by the US government. They aren't making this achievement as a result of their own original effort or even funding (NASA provided a significant portion of the funding). I don't think it is fair to compare the SpaceX plan with China's (who have almost certainly had to acquire the ex…

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. China was the beneficiary of decades of Soviet research into space as well, their early program flew Soyuz craft, their current craft maintain backwards compatibility if what is available is to be believed. They have a space station and put a rover on the Moon. So how is that an unfair comparison? And how does using existing research take away from anything SpaceX…

> I disagree that the Chinese started from scratch. From where I am sitting they started at the exact same place SpaceX did, using the research and know-how from a well funded and storied space organization to bootstrap their goals.

We can count it different ways. Besides having millenias long history of rocketry, China modern space program started with von Karman student:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#334

Post by alirazaq »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #254
ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

> there isn't anything about a privately funded and established outpost that wants to declare independence Practically speaking, there isn't anything the UN can do if America sticks a base on Mars and calls it sovereign soil. We've already started legalising private ownership of celestial bodies through the SPACE Act, in direct contravention of the Outer Space Treaty.

The Outer Space Treaty was only meant to prevent governments from claiming ownership of celestial bodies. The SPACE Act echoes that:

>It is the sense of Congress that by the enactment of this Act, the United States does not thereby assert sovereignty or sovereign or exclusive rights or jurisdiction over, or the ownership of, any celestial body

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#335

Post by throwanem »

gravypod wrote: post #121
beojan wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's gravity and a rock on Earth too. Just going up into orbit, then landing back on Earth, is a much better way of testing a Mars landing.

The Earth has a full atmosphere with winds, an expansive array of magnetic and electric fields, and a much much higher gravitational pull then Mars or the moon. About a factor of 10 removed from mars and about a further factor of 10 removed from the moon. You'd obviously need more fuel, and fuel that can burn in a completely different atmosphere then it's intended to run in. It's an invalid test for the kind of usefu…

Rockets carry oxidizer along with fuel, so the composition of the local atmosphere doesn't really figure. Also, your factors are way off; Martian gravity is a bit shy of 0.4g, and lunar gravity a bit proud of 0.1.

Finally, we don't need to land on the moon, or Earth, or anywhere else, to validate a method of landing on Mars, because we already know how to land on all of those things. We've done it plenty of times before, in all cases; the difference between doing it manned and doing it unmanned is purely one of mass.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#336

Post by prewett »

someguydave wrote: post #309
adventured wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not stretching the definition at all . You can hardly be a large business in any developed nation without having substantial business relationships with various world governments. See: Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Boeing, Caterpillar, Lockheed Martin, Ford, GM, 3M, Berkshire Hathaway, General Electric, etc. Might as well pretend Medtronic, Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson aren't private, because they do so much business…

I for one consider such companies to be quasi-government organizations. Especially to the degree that their products are purchased by the government via something other than a open market bid.

Dell doesn't purchase from Microsoft at an open market bid, either. No big organization purchases at open market bid if they can help it. In contrast, the U.S. government is frequently required to purchase on an open market bid (more or less, I'm not sure what your definition of "open market bid" is).

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#337

Post by stevespang »

Do you see the comments on one site: "about 2 rich fat cats all ego-ed out who paid Space X tens of millions, just smiling from ear to ear and gloating that the whole world is watching them make history, and the rest of us "lowlanders" have to watch them with envy - - only to have it by mere chance turn into a Roman spectacle - - - - of the whole world watching as they get bar-be-qued in space, never to see earth again.

A massive crowd will be assembled to attempt a Guinness book of world records, to moon the stars with bare asses all in unison in a soccer stadium just as they blast off into space, yelling out like the Romans did at the coliseum: "We salute you those who are about to DIE !" then post it on YouTube !

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#338

Post by oh_sigh »

mmaunder wrote: post #212
runesoerensen wrote: post #5

> We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to spend a lot of superfluous money :)

It could be Elon.

I suspect Elon is saving himself for his Mars mission in 2031.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#339

Post by castratikron »

ogezi wrote: post #172

I wonder who the people going on this trip are. Are they billionaires, a rich couple planning a honeymoon. You'd have to be rich to do this right? I also wonder which kind of insurance both Spacex and the individuals have for this. It's amazing that private companies are now doing things that were previously only one by governments and nations. I don't know how this will work out but congratulations to Musk, Spacex a…

I wonder what kind of training they'll be required to go through. A majority of NASA astronauts have had military training. How can you guarantee that an eccentric billionaire won't lose his cool once he's orbiting a heavenly body?
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