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SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

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Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#301

Post by rlanday »

dperfect wrote: post #232
ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

> China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? I don't want to downplay SpaceX at all because I'm a huge fan, but isn't flying someone to the moon (and presumably back) more complicated than just flying…

It's not a greater achievement than the Apollo moon landings (it's basically the mission flown on Apollo 13, swinging around the moon without going into orbit and then coming back), but it's still something that hasn't been done since the Apollo 17 mission in 1972.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#302

Post by ChuckMcM »

sidlls wrote: post #288
ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

This is great, but let's have some perspective, please. SpaceX is the beneficiary of decades of research in engineering and basic science by the US government. They aren't making this achievement as a result of their own original effort or even funding (NASA provided a significant portion of the funding). I don't think it is fair to compare the SpaceX plan with China's (who have almost certainly had to acquire the ex…

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

China was the beneficiary of decades of Soviet research into space as well, their early program flew Soyuz craft, their current craft maintain backwards compatibility if what is available is to be believed. They have a space station and put a rover on the Moon. So how is that an unfair comparison?

And how does using existing research take away from anything SpaceX has done? Sure NASA bought missions from them before they were sure that they could deliver, that sort of seed funding is not uncommon. Blue Origin benefited from a wealth of data in the DC-X project, also funded by NASA but its still remarkable what that they took Newshepard up and down from space four times.

I disagree that the Chinese started from scratch. From where I am sitting they started at the exact same place SpaceX did, using the research and know-how from a well funded and storied space organization to bootstrap their goals.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#303

Post by gydfi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #254
ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

> there isn't anything about a privately funded and established outpost that wants to declare independence Practically speaking, there isn't anything the UN can do if America sticks a base on Mars and calls it sovereign soil. We've already started legalising private ownership of celestial bodies through the SPACE Act, in direct contravention of the Outer Space Treaty.

But practically speaking there's also not much the US can do in that scenario if Russia or China ignores US sovereignty over Mars and sets up their own base. The US's only recourse would be to start a war, and would that be worth it? Sovereignty is more of a practical concept than a legal one: you own what you are both able and willing to defend.

See also the Russian bases in the Australian Antarctic territory. Australia asserts sovereignty over a third of Antarctica, Russia ignores it and sets up bases anyway. Australia has neither the ability nor the desire to fight Russia, so we studiously ignore it.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#304

Post by gydfi »

pklausler wrote: post #219
pklausler wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the moon isn't at a fixed distance. It's possible that one of the other cislunar or landing Apollo missions was more distant, geocentrically, even with their standard 69-mile lunar orbital heights.

Did some more research, and yes, Apollo 13 was indeed the furthest in geocentric distance as well.

Great, so with good timing we can both get a great view and set a record simultaneously.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#305

Post by miketery »

grondilu wrote: post #265
runesoerensen wrote: post #5

> We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to spend a lot of superfluous money :)

> Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to spend a lot of superfluous money :) Imagine it ends up being some celebrity, like Leonardo di Caprio (who has shown interest in space IIRC) or Lady Gaga. Don't you think it would somehow tarnish the whole thing?

Why would a figure with so much PR fire power tarnish it? If anything it would put space exploration front and center for so many young and adolescence people.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#307

Post by zardo »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

>Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it has enough to get off again though) and SpaceX certainly has the expertise in building spacecraft that land.

Not if you count de-orbiting as part of landing it doesn't. It has something like 300m/s dV. Landing would take 2000ish, and that just gets you down.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#308

Post by whyenot »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #192
hackuser wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The next person to take a picture of the Earth from moon may not be on a government funded mission. Note that the press release says: Most importantly, we would like to thank NASA, without whom this would not be possible. NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, which provided most of the funding for Dragon 2 development, is a key enabler for this mission. Your tax dollars, if you are American, helped pay for this. Thank yo…

As a taxpayer (who was just reminded this past weekend of how much that is :-) I'm really glad that NASA had enough budget to spend on the Commercial Crew program. Given that the NASA budget of $18.5B[1] is a rounding error on the overall budget $3,540B[2], seriously it's a half a percent. And commercial crew was only $1.2B [ibid] of that NASA budget. So less than .05%. Again rounding error. And with that money they…

Why is it so important to send people on these missions outside of some 21st century version of manifest destiny? NASA could do so much more with its limited funding if it just cut out all the humans.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#309

Post by someguydave »

adventured wrote: post #224
briandear wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really stretching the definition of private company considering NASA is the major provider of both funding and infrastructure.

It's not stretching the definition at all . You can hardly be a large business in any developed nation without having substantial business relationships with various world governments. See: Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Boeing, Caterpillar, Lockheed Martin, Ford, GM, 3M, Berkshire Hathaway, General Electric, etc. Might as well pretend Medtronic, Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson aren't private, because they do so much business…

I for one consider such companies to be quasi-government organizations. Especially to the degree that their products are purchased by the government via something other than a open market bid.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#310

Post by gus_massa »

godelski wrote: post #199
Pfhreak wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The explosion from that helium tank was slower than the emergency rockets on the dragon, from what I understand. So, had the capsule been fitted with them, it would have stayed entirely clear of the event. It'd be a rough ride, but it would have been a survivable event.

The thing is that NASA doesn't want to put anyone on something has the chance of doing that. The emergency system is for emergencies. Ideally it should NEVER be used. Vetting for manned missions is a lot different than cargo. That's all I'm getting at here. When rockets have recently exploded NASA gets pretty worried about putting humans on it.

For comparison, the Space Shuttle has NO emergency system and approximately a 2% catastrophic failure rate ...
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