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SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

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Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! I also think that spending money on a roundtrip to the moon is way better for humanity than spending it on champagne, caviar and cars.

> I also think that spending money on a roundtrip to the moon is way better for humanity than spending it on champagne, caviar and cars. How? I'm not saying you're wrong, but gut instinct is that automobiles are more useful to humans. I'd like to hear your thought process.

The key phrase in this statement is "for humanity", not "for an individual".

Automobiles, while useful, are mostly a solved technology (unless you're buying Tesla or some other prototype, pushing-the-envelope model). Buying another one - or for that matter, making another typical automobile - has negligible marginal impact on advancement of technology. Taking humans to the Moon again - first time in 45 years - will have a huge impact both on our technological capacity as a species[0] and on the public's willingness to pursue those advancements.

Also, spaceflight is an immature area of knowledge, so one could argue that in general, each dollar put in it has more marginal benefit than the same dollar put into buying typical consumer goods.

--

[0] - Which is arguably not ever-increasing; we've pretty much lost the manned deep spaceflight capabilities with the end of Apollo program. There are practical details we need to rediscover, and those details will be important in efforts to put humans on Mars and elsewhere in the Solar System.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#283
post #276

> We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to spend a lot of superfluous money :)

It would be cooler if they donated it for sending more robots to Mars...

More practical, science-wise? Yes. Cooler? Definitely not.

Sending humans to space has a very important non-scientific factor - human emotions and imagination. It's an important driving force that's also necessary until we bootstrap a proper profitable market that'll do the driving.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#284
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm less worried about this mission, and more than it's going to give people an (increasingly) false confidence that we're ready for Mars.

Ah, in that context, yes. We'll have to see a lot about the flight performance of the Heavy and whatever crew capsule they come up with. I would imagine they would do it similar to how the Apollo missions were done. First you do the dress rehearsal where no one lands. They could use that mission to put supplies in orbit as well. For Mars, they might need more than one. I'll be interested in what they come up with, bu…

Mars as a goal is laudable, but 2025 strikes me as more likely to be murderous. There's no doubt that human lives can grease the wheels of progress, and often have in the past. I feel like people have already accepted that as the way space will be too, when it still doesn't have to be... yet.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#285
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a taxpayer (who was just reminded this past weekend of how much that is :-) I'm really glad that NASA had enough budget to spend on the Commercial Crew program. Given that the NASA budget of $18.5B[1] is a rounding error on the overall budget $3,540B[2], seriously it's a half a percent. And commercial crew was only $1.2B [ibid] of that NASA budget. So less than .05%. Again rounding error. And with that money they…

If instead of increasing military spending 54 billion, we gave it all to NASA, we could be quadrupling NASA's budget.

The risk is that more money does not always mean more progress. Government organizations tend to grow all by themselves (would be interesting if you could legislate some productivity targets into budget expansion maybe?)

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#286
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX for a landing mission wouldn't try and build a larger rocket, they'd definitely argue to just do multiple launches instead. Fuel tankering is within their area of interest for Mars.

I believe this (mating tanks given multiple missions) is what they were considering. Imagine you have your reusable falcon 9 boost into orbit a 'fuel only' second stage. Land the first stage, put another one on it, and send it up again. Once you have your 'boost pack' up in orbit, presumably docking with each other into a single unit, you launch your crew which attaches to the 'tug' that takes them to the moon. ULA h…

Jet fighters routinely use so much fuel taking off that the first thing they do after gaining altitude is refuel. Rockets can use the same idea.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#287
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the Falcon 9/Falcon Heavy that will be used in this launch; it uses RP-1 (basically very pure jet fuel, AKA kerosene) and liquid oxygen as fuel. The Shuttle and the new Space Launch System will use hydrogen/LOX, which exhausts basically water vapor.

Well, not the SRB part.

Yeah, in both cases, the SRBs are the majority of the launch thrust.

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#288

Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy. Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it…

This is great, but let's have some perspective, please. SpaceX is the beneficiary of decades of research in engineering and basic science by the US government. They aren't making this achievement as a result of their own original effort or even funding (NASA provided a significant portion of the funding).

I don't think it is fair to compare the SpaceX plan with China's (who have almost certainly had to acquire the expertise from a starting position far, far behind where SpaceX started).

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly and that's not mentioning the benifit of being able to easily recover a failed prototype or even just analysis of a failed prototype. Imagine trying to diagnose a problem that comes up 10 months into the program after the probe is no longer in a direct visual path or while communications via microwaves start taking 10-20 seconds from point to point. There are too many questions to be answered before we can ju…

On the other hand, 10-20 people in a bus out of control on a mountainside can get in the news, even if it ends in tragedy. But we don't color our whole view of auto travel because of it. We don't make policy or even many business decisions because of it. Space travel can be dangerous. We will likely lose some crews. Rescue will always be too far away to matter. But I think folks will do it anyway.

Of course they will.

  Say to me, "There's too much danger."
  Say we could be lost,
  And I reply, "I'm no stranger
  To danger. That's the cost."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oet1j9EA2fs&index=10&list=PL...

(Incidentally, this lovely song is a good answer to a lot of comments on this story.)

Re: SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

#290
It is very likely Steve Jurveston.

1. In a comment about the announcement alluded to it as a "recurring dream"[1]

2. 5 years ago, described a moon orbit as "when I plan to fly in space. I have two specific missions in mind"[2]

3. SpaceX Board Member and investor

4. Has the money

5. Knows Elon "Mr Musk declined to reveal their identities, only saying that they knew each other"[3]

6. Is "nobody from Hollywood"

7. Liked this comment on his FB wall "Can I tag along?!? Ahhhhh!!!"[4]

[1]https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/23226164619

[2]https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/7659357718

[3]http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39111030

[4]https://www.facebook.com/jurvetson/posts/10158310863860611?c...

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