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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#261

Post by rustynails77 »

jimbokun wrote: post #205

I know this is politics and maybe distracting from the main conversation but... The United States voters just decided similar behavior is not disqualifying for the office of President. So how can we possibly convince other men this kind of behavior is not conducive to attaining the money, power, and influence they may desire?

When you said men, are you ignoring when Marissa Mayer (not a man) dismissed many of her senior male staff and replaced them almost entirely with women?

Please understand that sexism is not a "men" thing. It's selective reporting by the MSM.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#262

Post by sgustard »

vinceguidry wrote: post #16
Grue3 wrote: post #9

There's really no reason not to name Mike #2. If this is real, he already knows who you are.

There's enough information given in the story that virtually anybody who worked at Uber can name the people involved. Public naming and shaming is understandably desired, but unnecessary. It invites legal action.

I wouldn't call it "unnecessary." Eventually Mike will quit or get fired, then repeat this behavior at another company.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#263

Post by PhantomGremlin »

jressey wrote: post #192
surrey-fringe wrote: post #173

Nah, I like cheap rides. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

There's no such thing as a [cheap] lunch.

There's no such thing as a [cheap] lunch.

That's only true in the long term.

In the short term the VCs giving Uber money (while Uber loses billions) are providing you with a [cheap] ride.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#264

Post by jlewis7272 »

slurple wrote: post #188
sidlls wrote: post #181

Some of the responses to that article express a sentiment that women should fight back and not just silently take it. I wonder (doubt) if they've ever been abused. It's hard for someone who has been abused to come forward, let alone stand up to an abuser. Besides, men outnumber women in tech by a very large margin. It's on our shoulders to help women fight back. Strength in numbers is a thing, and having men who spea…

The best way for men to counter this in a toxic environment is to call it out when they see it. This sends a message that being outwardly dehumanizing and dismissive is not okay, and is not the accepted norm.

Yes! This! Same with dealing with racists, call it out when you see it. And stand up with those who are brave enough to act on it.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#265

Post by vkou »

trcollinson wrote: post #194
vkou wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's surprising to me that neither have pursued Uber in this regard. Reasons to pursue sexual harassment litigation: * You may make some money. Reasons to not pursue sexual harassment litigation: * You will have to devote an enormous amount of money, time, energy, health, and your emotional well-being. * Your lawyers will take half the settlement, either in up front fees, or as a portion of the bounty. * You will g…

IANAL. You are absolutely right in all regards about this (with the exception of your last point which is FUD). However, there is one interesting option which may negate some of these issues. That option would be a Class Action. If enough women and minorities came forward with verifiable claims of systemic discrimination they could band together and reduce the amount of over all problems with the law suit by having i…

> With a class action you have far more people to fight on your side, making cross X a lot less scary, if it ever gets to the trial stage.

That's not how class action lawsuits work. It's highly unlikely that 'women and LGBT persons of all genders who were abused by shitty bosses at Uber' will be found, by a court, to be a class. The class-action will be dismissed before it even gets to determining wrong-doing.

You can have a class action lawsuit over your employer, say, stealing wages from 10,000 employees.

You cannot have a class action lawsuit if 12 people have been harassed and abused by their managers. (The fact that the practice is widespread will impact judgements, but it does not mean that 12 people form a 'class action'.) [1]

Even more importantly, sexual harassment cases by their nature, require each case to be evaluated on its merits. Just because Claire, Adam, and Barbara have been abused by their bosses, doesn't mean that Donna can piggyback onto the lawsuit, and claim damages, without having her case examined as thoroughly as theirs.

> This is FUD.

No, it's not - not if you lose. If they win the case, Uber can, and almost certainly will countersue. (For PR reasons, they would prefer to avoid suing you if you just complain on your blog.) The first Google hit for your name will be about how you sued your employer, and lost.

Yes, there is the social benefit of these cases going to trial (Preventing future abuse in other companies), but not everyone wants to be a martyr.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action#Class_certificati...

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#266

Post by ubercore »

mjolk wrote: post #226
ubercore wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, try again. We're talking about a company being criticized (in part) for the treatment of female engineers. You're making assertions that this article isn't believable. The author is a female. Pretty big stretch to say I'm being sexist by suggesting you have _no clue_ what is or isn't a believable experience for a female engineer at Uber.

You're trying to play identity politics in an attempt to discredit any disagreement based on another layer of subjective criteria that you decide. What you just suggested -- that men are incapable of considering the credibility of an anonymous story told from a female point of view -- is sexist. When I believed in Susan Fowler's account, was I allowed to have an opinion then? Racism and homophobia were also brought u…

I'm not playing identity politics. And I didn't mention racism and homophobia because that's not the perspective the author wrote from.

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I understand your doubts about the story. Really. I'm just calling attention to the way you chose to raise them. Claiming they're "absurd" as a way to present your argument that we should be skeptical is hard to take to seriously unless you're willing to say you worked on her team, or were another female engineering at Uber.

And yes, I probably escalated things talking about privilege, but I think this is a good example of how we don't always realize the ways our viewpoints affect our opinions. I personally have no basis with which to offer an opinion about the validity of the story. I welcome someone that reminds us to be skeptical because everything written was written anonymously.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about allowing anyone an opinion. I'm talking about how we discuss these things productively in public forums.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#267

Post by soheil »

cyberpunk wrote: post #222
soheil wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did a search of all current/past Uber employees based on public data mainly from LI, found only 6 people with those degrees and none were female. Did another search for people who worked as Data Analyst and worked at Uber came up with 6 different people again all male. As other answers suggest the information could be twisted, but definitely not "slightly".

What was your motivation for doing this? As soon as someone doesn't want to be associated with a story critical of anything, the salt is implicit isn't it? Considering the last few stories that have come out about how women are being treated in tech, what I've observed (and been enraged by) I'm pretty sure this happened/is happening still. Are you just trying to verify the legitimacy of the post? If someone finds the…

I am trying to verify its legitimacy, how can you silently accept such a critical post on face-value, no I don't work there. Giving voice to false claims intensifies their illegitimate power and in societies that this prevails that same power can be used by propagandists to advance their goal, so it's not about Uber it's about giving homage to truth, as every person's responsibility should be.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#268

Post by azrazalea »

asymmetric wrote: post #247

This is terrible, and one more reason to despise Uber, but I find the usage of the word "survivor" out of place in this context, at least in my understanding of its meaning. I know this is not the main point to take home from this situation, and I also know I'll be attacked from making it, but I felt it was important nonetheless.

It is far from unheard of for someone to kill themselves in these situations. Also, still working in the industry could be considered surviving and someone who left the industry due to this treatment could be considered someone who didn't survive.

So i'd say survivor fits perfectly.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#269

Post by woodruffw »

x0x0 wrote: post #227
woodruffw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's anonymity in numbers. Even with Uber's relatively small female workforce, the high turnover rate and unspecified timeframe makes it likely that there are dozens of potential candidates. This sounds specific, but it's really just a lot of datapoints that already correlate heavily with the sample group (Engineering is large at Uber, elite private colleges are strongly represented at startups, average-heighted w…

I'm curious if HR will out her, or if there's so many harassment complaints lodged with HR that even so doing makes you effectively anonymous. You say that's unethical and/or illegal, but it's Uber HR, brought to you by the company that jokes about paying a million dollars to dig up dirt on your critics [1], and that lied to a judge about paying investigators to dig up dirt on someone suing them [2], [3]. [1] https:/…

Internally, she's almost definitely identifiable. I think the parent was talking about public identifiability, seeing how the public doesn't have access to Uber's employee records.

And yes, unethicality/illegality doesn't appear to be an impediment for Uber. In fact, they seem to revel in skirting the law.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#270

Post by beachy »

joezydeco wrote: post #28

"In essence, the HR department blackmailed me that if I make noise, I’d be fired. I was distraught by the HR department’s response especially considering that most of the HR folks I dealt with were women." Say it over and over, say it loud, and say it to every single person entering the US workforce from day one: H/R ACTS AND WILL ALWAYS ACT IN THE COMPANY'S BEST INTERESTS. NOT YOURS. Amy's situation was grave, and k…

Ouch, those caps.

Yes, normally, HR acts in the company's interests.

But for many companies, its in their best interests to identify and fire creeps who work there and abuse women (or others generally).

What HR will do for you depends on what type of company you work in.

If you work in a company that cares about its culture, that values diversity and respects its employees, then HR is very likely to help you if you experience problems like these.

If you work for Uber - well I guess that's what all the heat and light is about. Is Uber such a shithole that these kinds of behaviour are actually condoned by the CEO?

Maybe we'll find out.

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