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How a French scholar was treated at US airport

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Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#221

Post by mercer »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #99
ritchiea wrote: post #83

For everyone on HN that's afraid of being harassed for their politics because of how Trump support was received, this story and worse ones to come are exactly what we were afraid of coming from Trump. This was never just about policy, the current administration is giving license to treating people who don't look "American" enough with suspicion and they made that intention clear in their campaign. If this was just ab…

>this story and worse ones to come are exactly what we were afraid of coming from Trump. To dial back the hyperbole for a second, we've seen this kind of story happening before Trump took office, and in countries other than the US. Crossing borders carries with it a non-zero chance that you'll be treated like total crap and even when you're lucky enough that the system corrects itself you'll almost certainly get no a…

I agree that it's too early to be certain that Trump taking office makes a difference. I've certainly had concerns and bad experiences entering the USA well before Trump.

That said, I don't think it's all that strange to be extra worried now that Trump is in charge. It makes complete sense to think that things will get even worse under Trump, although I'm open to arguments to the contrary because I'd love to be proven wrong!

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#223

Post by mercutio2 »

NoirDesir wrote: post #141
joncrocks wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From google: engueuler. (transitive, informal) to give (someone) a roasting, to tell someone off. (reflexive, informal) to argue, to have a row. So I think the officer just gave her a telling off.

engueuler = bawl out

Several people have offered this translation. Just FYI, I don't think many US English speakers will have heard that phrase before.

A more idiomatic phrase in the US would be "she was chewed out".

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#224

Post by cema »

JeromeLon wrote: post #148
coldcode wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

I agree. I work in the UK, and used to go to SFO twice a year. I am now telling my manager that I am not willing to take the risk to be arbitrarily detained for no reason, even if it's only a 1% chance (which sounds about the current level). Send me to any country, but only where the rule of law applies.

But this is the rule of law, unfortunately. While we (Americans, in this case) are trying to change the laws, the problem, or rather a problem, is that people who enforce the law at the border have too much power (and too much leniency for exercising too much power). This problem is not peculiar to the US.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#225

Post by peferron »

jobigoud wrote: post #138
peferron wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but how does that apply to this article? He was going to get paid and had an appropriate visa.

The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1. He didn't have one, his J1 is expired. His situation is peculiar because as a scholar there is an exception. But if it had been to, say, tech talk at a conference, you can't get paid. So I think it's relevant to the article because that's probably what the CBP agent was thinking. And the fact that he'd have been doing it for 30 years doesn't ch…

> The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1.

No. There are plenty of situations where you can get paid in the USA without having a work visa. As you mentioned, the scholar in this article is one example. Another example: my spouse has a H-4, which is not a work visa, but has received employment authorization (EAD) and can get paid. Another example: athletes can enter the USA on a B-1, which is not a work visa, and get paid prize money.

We could keep going, but the point is that a rule with too many exceptions stops being useful and just becomes a false statement. This led the first CBP officer to incorrectly detain the scholar in the article. This also led the author of the original comment I replied to to visibly stop reading the article halfway through, and post to HN that the scholar did not have an appropriate visa and that it was the university's fault, both of which are explicitly debunked at the end of the article.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#226

Post by shitgoose »

refurb wrote: post #107
skocznymroczny wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably it's been like that always at the US border, it's just now it's popular to showcase such stories as an example of "look what Trump did to our country". I heard of horror stories at the US border way before Trump took office.

That's pretty much it. I can remember stories from a decade ago about Canadians traveling to the US. They get the "business or pleasure" question. They say "pleasure" and then the border patrol does a quick search, finds "business" papers, then proceeds to ban the person for 5 years from entering the US. Nothing has really changed with regards to how people are treated.

Yep, I can confirm that.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#228

Post by crpatino »

jacquesm wrote: post #209
crpatino wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not silly. People carry necesities of life while traveling, but there have been deadly plages since there has been long distance traveling too. It is imposible to know in advance everything any traveler might have on their person at the time of crossing the border, so everything that is not explicitly whitelisted should not be forbidden by default; and it is travelers duty to know the list of permitted things w…

Yes, we all would hate to be that farmer, unfortunately for you that farmer as far as we know does not exist and is a hypothetical. There are as far as I know no pests that exist North of the border that do not exist South of it (though the reverse does occasionally happen). Of course all the good little boys and girls will only eat apples locally grown to make sure such terrible dangers will not befall the local far…

It is more complex than that.

It is obvious to you that apples cannot bring any pests. Last time I checked you were an IT professional, not an epidemiologist; so please forgive me if I am skeptical of you abilities to judge whether the assertation up there is true or not. Actually, I am skeptical of the abilities of the average tourist to judge whether the thing they are already biased to do for their own comfort is against the public good or not.

But anyways... we were talking apples, what about oranges? What about pets? Do we really need to go through the list of all possible things that all possible travelers might think they are entitled to carry on their person? Wouldn't you agree that a rule that is not simple enough to be executed by your random clerk is, for all practical purposes, unenforceable?

So, even if apples are sort of OK to bring in, they still should be banned until it is throughly demonstrated that they are OK to bring in. And the resources needed for that through demonstration can only happen if enough people want to bring those apples (and maybe pay a customs fare for it).

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#229

Post by logfromblammo »

snovv_crash wrote: post #219
geodel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically speaking, some first world countries might be able to hold US citizens in disdain. But for much of the third world the US tourists are big source of revenue and non tourists are usually important people on government or private business. So most nations can't afford to treat US citizens badly whether they want or not.

Maybe I don't speak for everyone, but I'd be more likely to go on holiday somewhere if I can be assured there are no US tourists there.

As an American, I'd also be more likely to vacation somewhere if I knew it had no rude American tourists there.

I could say the same of British, Russian, German, and Chinese tourists.

This is why, even when vacationing inside the US, I avoid the tourist traps. They're full of jackasses, regardless of individual nationality. But it should also be noted that those same countries that routinely make the list of the world's worst tourists also top the lists of the worlds best tourists. When a tourist is well behaved, you barely notice them, but when they act up, you remember it.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#230

Post by [deleted] »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #139
monodeldiablo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't encourage ill treatment of US citizens overseas. Americans who travel outside her borders are not the people making these decisions, tend to be much more worldly than the average citizen, and are the first to be horrified at these developments. If you want to make the US change, speak the language we speak: lawsuits. Sue, sue, sue. Call your embassy and demand that they pressure the White House to retrac…

They might not be making the decisions but they are the only ones who can affect them. How can foreigners demand that the US government changes its policy?

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