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How a French scholar was treated at US airport

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Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#201

Post by cr1895 »

ng12 wrote: post #194
jacquesm wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when you hear 'America' you never think of the USA either?

The two are not equivalent. America is shorthand for the United States of. Mexico is short for Estados Unidos Mexicanos. Europe is a geographically defined continent. If I were in Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Serbia, Macedonia, or the Ukraine would it not be appropriate to say I was in Europe?

Well technically I think it depends on which side of Iceland you're standing. To the west you're on the North American plate and to the east it's the Eurasian plate.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#202

Post by jff »

jacquesm wrote: post #170
wyldfire wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might seem silly to you but I think that the import controls to protect domestic agriculture make sense and preventing unintentional/incidental imports like this one is an important part of CBP's job. They should spend more time on this and less time on rejecting visitors to the US. Unfortunately government employees can be remarkably bureaucratic and power trip. They should quarantine or destroy incidental contra…

> It might seem silly to you No, it IS silly. People carry little bits of food with them to eat while traveling, they've been doing that as long as there have been people. Clearly this has nothing to do with importing apples at a level with which the border patrol needs to be concerned, it's just some lowlife official flexing his/her muscle.

http://jenny.tfrec.wsu.edu/opm/displaySpecies.php?pn=140

They're not asking about fruit because they're worried you may sell that single apple and drive a farmer out of business. The spread of agricultural pests and diseases is a major problem.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#203

Post by [deleted] »

strictnein wrote: post #198
DanBC wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up in the UK where you (still) don't need to carry a drivers license. There's a convenient arrangement, but strictly speaking you commit an offence if you don't, when asked, give your driving licence. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VII/crosshe... This is an important difference between US and UK. We have bad laws and they're not often used. The US has bad laws and they're used all the time.

I've been pulled over without my license in the US. Nothing happened. I've also had no proof of insurance. I just had to provide within a specified time period. No big deal. Lots of US law enforcement experts from overseas on the Interwebs these days.

[deleted]

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#204

Post by johnnyhillbilly »

jobigoud wrote: post #146
robk wrote: post #68

UPDATE: "It turned out this whole story has nothing to do with Egypt or Holocaust. Historian claimed that he would give a speech for money. Incompetent CBP officer incorrectly concluded that its a work without a proper work visa."

> Incompetent CBP officer incorrectly concluded that its a work without a proper work visa. It's more subtle than that. If it hadn't been for the very specific exception for scholars it would indeed have been work without a proper work visa.

Well, the CBP should bloody well train their staff on the rules they're tasked with enforcing.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#205

Post by geebee »

coldcode wrote: post #65
staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

Interesting idea, but probably the wrong decision. In my own life, I've noticed that this approach just doesn't work for me. Rudeness or cheating in response to rudeness and cheating doesn't win. The thing about the shameless (as James Bond mused about a cheater at tennis) is that they are curiously invulnerable. You aren't curiously invulnerable, so you'll lose at this sort of pissing contest.

A civil, coherent, deliberate, and assertive response is a very good idea, though. Just don't give up on your values.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#206

Post by crpatino »

jacquesm wrote: post #170
wyldfire wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might seem silly to you but I think that the import controls to protect domestic agriculture make sense and preventing unintentional/incidental imports like this one is an important part of CBP's job. They should spend more time on this and less time on rejecting visitors to the US. Unfortunately government employees can be remarkably bureaucratic and power trip. They should quarantine or destroy incidental contra…

> It might seem silly to you No, it IS silly. People carry little bits of food with them to eat while traveling, they've been doing that as long as there have been people. Clearly this has nothing to do with importing apples at a level with which the border patrol needs to be concerned, it's just some lowlife official flexing his/her muscle.

It is not silly. People carry necesities of life while traveling, but there have been deadly plages since there has been long distance traveling too.

It is imposible to know in advance everything any traveler might have on their person at the time of crossing the border, so everything that is not explicitly whitelisted should not be forbidden by default; and it is travelers duty to know the list of permitted things well in advance. It this is not the case right now, it means airlines and travel agencies are externalizing the cost of educating their customers, and this is reflected in the form of needless risks to public health.

I don't know you, but I would hate to be a farmer that looses the family's apple orchard to a foreign parasite that got introduced by some dumb tourist, just because the fat-cat air industy need to sale cheap tickets to anyone with a pulse and cannot afford to send a damned brochure to the buyers' address.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#208

Post by jacquesm »

jff wrote: post #202
jacquesm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might seem silly to you No, it IS silly. People carry little bits of food with them to eat while traveling, they've been doing that as long as there have been people. Clearly this has nothing to do with importing apples at a level with which the border patrol needs to be concerned, it's just some lowlife official flexing his/her muscle.

http://jenny.tfrec.wsu.edu/opm/displaySpecies.php?pn=140 They're not asking about fruit because they're worried you may sell that single apple and drive a farmer out of business. The spread of agricultural pests and diseases is a major problem.

Of course that apple will end up carrying a scary agricultural pest from Canada to the USA.

Really, this is totally over the top. It's not like we're talking about a an apple that you couldn't buy on either side of the border without any differences whatsoever.

And it could easily be that that apple was produced in the USA to begin with (or further South).

From a pest spreading perspective this makes no sense.

Going through the Southern barricade on foot I could see the point, going from Canada into the USA by bus with an apple it makes zero sense, especially since the pest you so helpfully linked here is widespread on both sides of the border anyway, besides the fact that it was extremely unlikely to carry that particular pest since it was sold as fit for consumption.

Or did you feel that because it came from Canada that there was some terrible risk that would not have been present had it come from any one of the other 49 states?

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#209

Post by jacquesm »

crpatino wrote: post #206
jacquesm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might seem silly to you No, it IS silly. People carry little bits of food with them to eat while traveling, they've been doing that as long as there have been people. Clearly this has nothing to do with importing apples at a level with which the border patrol needs to be concerned, it's just some lowlife official flexing his/her muscle.

It is not silly. People carry necesities of life while traveling, but there have been deadly plages since there has been long distance traveling too. It is imposible to know in advance everything any traveler might have on their person at the time of crossing the border, so everything that is not explicitly whitelisted should not be forbidden by default; and it is travelers duty to know the list of permitted things w…

Yes, we all would hate to be that farmer, unfortunately for you that farmer as far as we know does not exist and is a hypothetical. There are as far as I know no pests that exist North of the border that do not exist South of it (though the reverse does occasionally happen).

Of course all the good little boys and girls will only eat apples locally grown to make sure such terrible dangers will not befall the local farmers and to avoid 'needless risks to public health'.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#210

Post by jacquesm »

peteretep wrote: post #200
jacquesm wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it takes forever. At least it did the last time I came to the UK (Dec 2015). The line started well into the hallway, a hundred meters or so before the counter.

So you think it's a pain for Europeans to get into the UK because they're treated like UK citizens.

No, it's a pain for everybody and I'm not a masochist.

What the UK wants to do to its own citizens is their problem, they can vote to change it.

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