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How a French scholar was treated at US airport

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Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#61

Post by csydas »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #42
lawless123 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Carrying no devices Is this article seriously suggesting i can't travel without a device or can't wipe before i go, because these CBP guys are so easily triggered?

yes, both could be triggers

I understand the basic scope of the author's intent, stop advertising fool-proof solutions to avoid vetting checked by the CBP, but their praxis comments require a bit more sourcing and evidence for some of the claims, and quite frankly, most just sound like scaremongering.

The CBP actions and incidents as described by first hand accounts do not seem to define an institutional directive guiding the decisions as to who warrants further investigation, and more importantly, who warrants having their entry denied. From the article earlier today on Henry Rousso's experience, the Immigration Lawyer that helped secure Dr. Rousso's release suggested that agents themselves are looking for reasons to deny entry rather than reasons to admit. [1]

This isn't to excuse their behavior - it's deplorable, but to suggest there is a rhyme or reason to what's happening isn't really sensible. The issues is emboldened agents abusing power, not an institutional directive.

Quite honestly, travelers worried about drawing the ire of the CBP don't have many reassurances right now since you're not looking for what makes you suspicious or unsuspicious to the CBP, you're trying to guess what makes you suspicious or not suspicious to the individual agent you're reaching.

The agents' attitude absolutely needs to be checked and unfortunately this likely means there will be more of these cases until something institutional is sent down to curb the behavior.

[1] https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/26/us/french-historian-de...

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#62

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #14
geggam wrote: post #5

How is it the same people working for one president less than 60 days later act so different ? or are they ?

Probably it's been like that always at the US border, it's just now it's popular to showcase such stories as an example of "look what Trump did to our country". I heard of horror stories at the US border way before Trump took office.

I think you're right about it having been going for a while because I used to live in Canada and visited the USA regularly and I found that in both countries not just border officials but the police behavior was incredibly rude and counter productive compared to what I was used to in London, in the UK. I could detect there was a certain glee some of these people get from treating other people badly which is actually quite alien in my experiences in the UK. I'd say it's actually a cultural difference because it's so prevalent over there compared to here.

The part where he mentions three officials immediately shouted down a man in unison after he protested about their treatment of the woman with the child is a perfect example of the cruel and over the top behavior I was witness to. It's also quite cowardly to need three people to do that and pathetic. I should say I was not often the victim, but just watching other people being treated in this way made me feel sick and I think it's something that should be addressed by the citizens, you should say denounce this sort of treatment of anyone. Anyone who gets pleasure out of causing any sort of suffering of another person should be removed from their post, based on my experiences that would require a complete overhaul from top to bottom.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#63

Post by afandian »

infodroid wrote: post #35
schtitt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're not different. Every time I am visiting the states I have to go through the extra process of interviewing (due to things that happened a long time ago), and every time I am struck by how it seems like they're actively attempting to dehumanize the persons who are there. The border control is actually the #1 reason I am considering never visiting again. Though, as the original author, I love the US, so it's…

> Though, as the original author... Do you mean to say that you are the French historian Henry Rousso?

In English you can say "as X, Y", for example "as Google, Microsoft releases code, "as last time, I was late" or "as the author, I love the US". It doesn't mean that "Microsoft = Google", or "I am last time" or "I am the author".

Google's dictionary (wherever it comes from) has

> conjunction 2: used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done

I think you're thinking of

> preposition 1: used to refer to the function or character that someone or something has

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#64

Post by monodeldiablo »

yazbo_mcclure wrote: post #3

The leadership in that airport sec seams pretty crappy.

Have you been to one where it was decent? I haven't.

Every single time I've had a run-in with CBP or DHS they have (with two notable exceptions) come across as a hoard of malicious little fascists, delighting in how much power -- and how little oversight -- they'd been given over another person's life.

I was traveling shortly after 9/11 and the National Guard was deployed to many airports. Fair, calm, and respectful, they were a comparative delight to deal with.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#65

Post by coldcode »

staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#67

Post by monodeldiablo »

fowlerpower wrote: post #58

The article gives me anxiety. It gives me anxiety that people can be held at our borders for hours and sometimes days (in my country non the less). All because some junior border officer did not understand the visa type well enough. How can they not even apologize? How can they not even acknowledge these types of errors. Will they do this to us when we travel abroad on a tourist visa?

Will other countries begin to reciprocate? Will other countries/institutions begin demanding compensation for wrongful detention/deportations?

Perhaps my biggest concern is this: How long until this pushes someone over the edge? It's precisely this kind of persistent harassment that can convince an angry, disaffected young man that, yes, the system really is rigged against him.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#69

Post by j1j1j1j1 »

geggam wrote: post #5

How is it the same people working for one president less than 60 days later act so different ? or are they ?

This has been the case for a decade at least.

My understanding -- reading between the lines -- is that if someone has been to the US on a J1 they are more likely to return and work illegally.

CBP screen based on this. It sucks, and has for a long time. I've not personally experienced any change post-Obama. The major variability is in the CBP agent, not in top-down policies.

At the end of the day you have to choose between open and closed borders. If you want to close your borders then screening is a tough business. The main difference between the US and the rest of the world is scale and desirability. A lot of people want to go there, more than any other country in the world. That makes it difficult!

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