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Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#141

Post by groby_b »

matt4077 wrote: post #15
anigbrowl wrote: post #5

I disapprove of assassination but I've got to admit this one scores 10/10 for sheer style.

Certainly the attempt to kill Castro, of all people, with an exploding cigar should rank higher. Just imagine how that CIA brain storming went: A: "We're tasked with killing Castro. Again. Any ideas? Anything? Nothing is stupid! Castro! Go! B: "Cigars" C: "Boom!" A: "I see we're in mind-melt here. No wonder the western world trusts us with their lives during these troubling times" If you insist on actually successful…

Given that they tried pretty much anything...

There were 600+ attempts on Castro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/638_Ways_to_Kill_Castro

Granted, that's a figure from Cuban counterintelligence, so maybe slightly too high ;) But most of them are documented. And not only 'weird' ideas like exploding cigars - the last one, in 2000, involved 90kg of explosives: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38121583

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#142

Post by neutered_knot »

JshWright wrote: post #124
jorblumesea wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also doubt that airports have this on hand in many parts of the world. Maybe in the US where fears are stoked about a chemical attack.

Atropine is commonly used to treat other medical conditions. I would expect any modern emergency medical service to have it on hand (though perhaps not in the quantities necessary... we would need to use all the Atropine on multiple ambulances to treat one patient in this condition).

When I was in the army they taught us that the atropine was the antidote to the pralidoxime (or 2-PAM chloride as we called it).

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#143

Post by coldcode »

mtw wrote: post #128

Doesn't North Korea has ICBM missiles capable of reaching Italy or Washington DC? A missile full of VX agent is scary to me. The most North KOrea can fit on a missile is a warhead as powerful as Hiroshima's but a missile full of VX could potentially kill everyone in Washington DC Plus think of all the implications of transporting VX through international borders. Did China accept having North Korean agents transporti…

Not yet. Also given the unreliability of their missiles I doubt they could hit the ocean with any reasonable chance.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#144

Post by dmix »

tlow wrote: post #13

If we are talking about V-Series Agents, we might as well talk about the secret Soviet Program to develop additional V-series compounds[1] that would be undetectable by the west. It is important to note that there are many vectors of entry for a V-series agent, and in this case, evidence points to an atomized version, as opposed to the dermal administration which is more common among this class. An atomized version t…

> not the dermal would explain why two women attempting to aid "with bare hands" would not have been harmed.

Can you explain exactly how they carried out the assassination without harming themselves?

Each had two different compounds on their hands (or one with a rag?) and they touched his face in sequence. Then only on his face did they combine to become the nerve agent?

What about the last girl who touched his face, how was she not harmed? Was it because he had to inhale it?

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#145

Post by Spoom »

ptaipale wrote: post #119
franciskim wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the number of Wikipedia links, it's not like tlow is the only person on earth that knows about this.

I guess there are people who haven't heard of VX nerve agents, but over here, most males have got a basic training in the army (we have conscription here). I was in service 30 years ago and VX was listed as one of the threats where you would use your gas mask, though it is not necessarily nearly enough, obviously. In addition to gas mask, the rain poncho (also known as "magic cloak") is for protecting against radioac…

I mean, VX was the subject of The Rock, a 90s-era thriller with Nick Cage and Sean Connery. Maybe people didn't realize it was real, but the knowledge was already out there.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#146

Post by overcast »

mtw wrote: post #128

Doesn't North Korea has ICBM missiles capable of reaching Italy or Washington DC? A missile full of VX agent is scary to me. The most North KOrea can fit on a missile is a warhead as powerful as Hiroshima's but a missile full of VX could potentially kill everyone in Washington DC Plus think of all the implications of transporting VX through international borders. Did China accept having North Korean agents transporti…

North Korea launching a weapon of mass destruction on anyone on this planet, would ensure North Korea ceases to exist. They are just nonsense posturing, and empty threats. In the end we say yes, yes, grand wizard of NK, you are the best. Then we give them some money, and wait for their next silly display.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#147

Post by wiz21c »

sasas wrote: post #17

Interesting tid-bit from Wikipedia [1] In fiscal year 2008, the US Department of Defense released a study finding that the U.S. had dumped at least 124 tons of VX into the Atlantic Ocean off the coasts of New York/New Jersey and Florida, between 1969 and 1970. This material consisted of nearly 22,000 M55 rockets, 19 bulk containers holding 1,400 pounds (640 kg) each, and one M23 chemical landmine. [25] [1] https://en…

so if I read wikipedia well, 10 milligrams are enough to kill a person, so we have 124 Tons = 124 000 000 000 / 10 = 12 400 000 000 deadly doses in the ocean. Interesting. I wonder what the half-life of this VX thing is :-)

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#148

Post by chiph »

jszymborski wrote: post #56
crdb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While addressing a spellbound audience of young officers, he would sometimes partially immerse one finger in a small beaker of pure VX for a few seconds. Without interrupting his lecture, he would then amble to a nearby sink and casually wash the deadly chemical from his finger. The teaching point was that VX could not enter the skin instantaneously, and that accidental exposure of a small area would not be harmful…

I'm grateful for the edification, but dude, that's a very specific reference from a >$100 (text?)book on a very particular subject. I'm afraid to ask about your background :P

Some people may be ex-military, and are able to say some general things about a topic like this and not get into trouble - as long as they cite a publication available to the public to provide a plausible explanation.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#149

Post by busterarm »

M_Grey wrote: post #62
tlow wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I am merely a curious character who happens to read; occasionally on esoteric matters.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

I somewhat lost of my fear of this when in my late teens I became fascinated with these[1] and basically read everything I could find about them, including poking around LANL's website enough to spelunk a PDF of their paper about construction methods

This lead down a rabbit hole of reading about all of the types of military-grade explosives available & their yield and discussing creative scenarios to exploit EMP weapons with friends online.

Not on the no-fly list or any watch-lists (that I know of) yet.

[1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_pumped_flux_compre...)

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#150

Post by [deleted] »

staunch wrote: post #89
M_Grey wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

I used to worry about being "on a list" and then realized I wasn't okay with worrying about while considering myself a free person. Every time I wonder if I might get in trouble for reading, clicking, or watching something I make sure to do it.

[deleted]
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