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Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

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Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#291

Post by factsaresacred »

glormph wrote: post #283
factsaresacred wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'? How about the Swedish government themselves? - A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that "there any indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts. Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status…

I am not arguing against your point, but are there reports which are not 20+ years old? Also, my understanding of the words may be wrong but I didn't see anyone _justifying_ rape in this thread.

> are there reports which are not 20+ years old?

I asked the same question. In 2005 Bra released a report saying "Immigrants’ risk of being registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the end of the 1980s".

https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1...

Your claim was "What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'?" so my question is 'what of rape'? This is the main crime making headlines. How does one explain it with socioeconomic factors? And even if you could, would that be a satisfactory explanation?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#292

Post by belorn »

otalp wrote: post #151
leereeves wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Germany, refugees are less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen Meanwhile in Sweden: > According to the most recent study, people from foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents.

There's a difference between 'people from foreign backgrounds' and refugees. Even in Germany, I wouldn't be surprised if 'people from foreign backgrounds' commit crimes at a higher rate when you don't adjust for socio-economic conditions. However the majority of Syrian refugees - about 70%[1][2][3] are women and children. Again, something that is rarely mentioned in certain parts of the internet. [1]- http://www.poli…

Of the current population in Sweden, 60% are women and children and 60% are men and children. Children are 17,43%, so if you include them as both the group "women and children" and "men and children", you get a total of almost 120%.

70% is thus a very unclear number unless you can split out the number of children, or if one do not include how big the "men and children" group is.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#293

Post by literallycancer »

akerro wrote: post #114
literallycancer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about linking the material? >and anti-racist groups that demolish your car, house, get you fired from job for liking wrong thing on Facebook. Yea. It's your prerogative to hold controversial opinions. But you certainly don't have any right to be publicly racist and expect no retaliation. To clarify, I meant legal retaliation using legal means like firing the racist person from their job. Burning down their car is…

> How about linking the material? First result from 4sec googling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MYMVfyHi0 >But you certainly don't have any right to be publicly racist and expect no retaliation. Seriously, demolishing someone's car/house is not worth mentioning in your comment, but have no right to be publicly racist? I also didn't say it was racist, where did you take this from? Also, what's your address becaus…

I didn't mean to say that it's ok to burn down someone's car or a house. But retaliation within legal means is to be expected.

Not sure about Sweden, but in my country being publicly racist[1] would be viewed as a crime[2]. I don't think anyone expects employers to continue employing active criminals.

>I also didn't say it was racist, where did you take this from?

>anti-racist groups ... get you fired from job for liking wrong thing on Facebook

Presumably, anti-racist group would take offense to people liking racist things on Facebook (otherwise, why describe them as anti-racist as opposed to anti-'whatever it is you like on Facebook that they have issues with')?

1 - defined as: "Who founds, supports or propagates a movement that provably aims to suppress freedoms and rights of man, or preaches racial, ethnic, national, religious or class hatred, or hatred against another group of people, will be punished by 1 to 5 years of prison."

2 - in reality you'd probably be sued for it only if you pissed off someone with the money/time to spend on the legal procedures

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#294

Post by DanBC »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #109
onion2k wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as in Belgium then. They even throw stones at fire-fighters when they are doing their job. So nothing to worry about, right? I wouldn't be surprised if every country has areas people claim are like that. England: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3647355/Firefighters... Scotland: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bonfire-nigh... Wales: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/youths-attac…

Reports of youths stoning firemen are in the newspaper every couple of months in my UK city. Firemen report it as truth too, it has been specifically mentioned when I've visited fire stations (Scout visits). The youths are never charged from what I can tell, the police just disperse them. I assume this means the incidents don't go in to crime statistics. That's one way of "bringing down violent crime", don't arrest t…

> my UK city

> That's one way of "bringing down violent crime", don't arrest the perps

It is overly cynical.

The UK has two sets of crime statistics: police recorded crime and the annual crime survey.

Even the police recorded crime stats (which aren't regarded as statistically reliable) don't only rely on arrests, but include all reported crimes. So police arresting or not wouldn't affect the numbers.

But the annual crime survey (which is statistically reliable) doesn't rely on police recording.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#295

Post by dagenleg »

fpig wrote: post #229
dagenleg wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I would be too wrong to group RT journalists with the same people who instigated the Iraq war or the Libya fiasco. Sorry, but the western media that reported on "Gadaffi supplying troops with viagra to rape better" is as credible as the Kremlin mouthpiece to me. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/29/diplomat-gadda...

So I assume you found the worst article you could remember, and even in this article you can at least see traces of journalistic integrity that is completely absent in RT: > But it is a jump from that to suggesting Gaddafi is supplying troops with it to encourage mass rape. > US ambassador Susan Rice has also said, without offering evidence, that Iran was helping Syria to suppress dissent That's some serious mental g…

And Russia was the one who shielded Snowden after his leaks went public. It does not make Putin a valiant defender of the freedom of the press, does it now?

I have seen bending of the truth happening in all major media outlets ever since I started following them, and I honestly don't want to get drawn into the measuring contest of "which newspaper lies the worst" right now. Especially since due to the absence of good metrics we'd have to do what, find and nitpick articles over the last N years? And then we'll have to argue if there are or there are not traces of "journalistic integrity"? Nah, screw that.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#296

Post by devmunchies »

Why are many of Europe's leaders are childless? Isn't that strange? These people are creating laws and policies which will affect generations of people and they don't even have any skin in the game. They are fundamentally out of touch.

Doing a google image search of "Angela Merkel Family" or "Stefan Löfven family" (PM of Sweden) and its night and day compared to "Barack Obama family" or "Donald Trump Family".

Whether you are conservative or liberal, we all agree that we need leaders who are thinking about the future generations of the nation. Too much short-sightedness going on. Anyone who has raised kids knows that it changes you.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#297

Post by madmax96 »

freeflight wrote: post #267
Sacho wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I wasn't contesting that at all? I was taking the number of 1.1%, quoted as purportedly "really low", and trying to extrapolate what the number of sexual assaults is among the population at large. Like my last paragraph says, that extrapolation is around 0.8%, still not enough to justify a title "refugees commit less crime than Germans". The report you linked doesn't help me at all, only providing an even larger…

>The report you linked doesn't help me at all, only providing an even larger number than I started with for migrant crimes. The report is the only thing that actually matters in this context because it's the actual data. All your sources are just news-outlets trying to interpret data from sources they don't even share with the reader. >but migrants from countries without a crisis that would lead to them seeking asylu…

>You first have to accept them to check if they actually qualify for refugee status, those that don't qualify don't get the status and thus have to leave the country.

Then what? THEN they go back to the border and they create their own communities? How can you __actually__ make that many people leave?

>Do you seriously think creating these kinds of "slums" would be beneficial to anybody?

No, but the fact is these refugees are not able to contribute to the societies they come to in a meaningful way. For instance, in Germany only 1 in 10,000 refugees that arrived last year are employed. Is accepting a large quantity of people, most of whom do not have the kind of formal education required to be successful in a highly developed economy, beneficial to anybody? What's the end-game for this?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#298

Post by factsaresacred »

otalp wrote: post #287
factsaresacred wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'? How about the Swedish government themselves? - A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that "there any indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts. Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status…

Is there a link to an actual government site instead of pictures of a book in Swedish that was published decades ago? > Besides, socioeconomic factors to justify rape....really? I'm sorry, but it is really difficult to have a serious conversation with someone unable to differentiate between the process of analyzing reasons for crimes and 'justifying' crimes. That is elementary stuff. And your point doesn't even make…

> is there a link to an actual government site instead of pictures of a book in Swedish that was published decades ago?

That book was published by the goverment of Sweden. Does the host matter?

In 2005 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) published an update saying: "Immigrants’ risk of being registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the end of the 1980s" Link: https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1...

> it is really difficult to have a serious conversation with someone unable to differentiate between the process of analyzing reasons for crimes and 'justifying' crimes.

Justification: "give grounds for, give reasons for, give a justification for". Pointing at socioeconomic factors is justifying the crimes by allusion to the circumstances of the crime.

Maybe you're confused it with 'condoning' which means something else.

So my point is, do we think we can analyze and find reason for aggravated rape within socioeconomic circumstances?

> Are you saying rich, well educated muslims or african immigrants are still more likely to rape someone than a white person?

Am I? I don't think that I am.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#299

Post by dagw »

piva00 wrote: post #236
ra1n85 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with the uptick in "grenade attacks"? Seems like there's been more in 2016 than in the four year period leading up to 2012? Really curious as to how this is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...

From what I'm aware of, grenade attacks mostly occur between gangs in Malmö and some areas of Skåne and Göteborg. I'm not a Swedish national, I'm an expat living here so I don't have the whole story behind these gangs and why they mostly gathered around Göteborg and Malmö but not Stockholm. What I know is that these grenades came from the Balkans after the civil wars in the former Yugoslavia, now why is it so common…

why is it so common for it to happen in Sweden of all countries I honestly don't know

One theory is that due to a quirk in the way the law is worded, grenades where not considered weapons, but rather a controlled explosive[0]. What this means in practice is that the punishment for smuggling hand grenades into the country is much much lower than the punishment for smuggling in guns. As the law is written, if you are first time offender caught with a hand grenade you're likely to get away with a fine.

[0] https://www.svd.se/fritt-fram-ta-in-handgranater-i-sverige

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