Is the HN headline correct? The bloomberg article says "trade secrets" which are very different from patents, the video also says that this is not primarily a patent case.
edit: 0:48 in the video
Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, we know that public statements about lawsuits are always a pack of lies as everyone tries to look as wronged as possible: remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions? or remember the Oculus lawsuit where they alleged almost the exact same thing (Carmack stealing thousands of sooper-sekrit VR documents/files) and wound up…
Being ultimately required by circumstance to make a substantial payment to settle a lawsuit does not imply that the payer was lying, or even incorrect, in their defense.
I think losing a lawsuit is definitely evidence for claims being false just as winning correlates with telling the truth about not doing wrong things, and if it is true that there is no correlation whatsoever between losing a lawsuit and making false claims, then the legal system has failed utterly (and incidentally, you have given me a great idea for a business model).
Given the adversarial nature of the system and the many past comments on HN to take claims by litigants with very large grains of salt when it came to the Oracle or Facebook or Oculus lawsuits, I'm surprised at the apparent credulity on display. Google will huff and puff just as much as anyone else when it comes to lawsuits.
Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#103I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I ret…
im just gonna say the fact that they told you to go for a walk and leave your laptop is pretty creepy.
Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being ultimately required by circumstance to make a substantial payment to settle a lawsuit does not imply that the payer was lying, or even incorrect, in their defense.
I think losing a lawsuit is definitely evidence for claims being false just as winning correlates with telling the truth about not doing wrong things, and if it is true that there is no correlation whatsoever between losing a lawsuit and making false claims, then the legal system has failed utterly (and incidentally, you have given me a great idea for a business model). Given the adversarial nature of the system and…
It's evidence, but it's not dispositive, especially in cases like Cruise, where the technicality that determines the outcome might give the defense a 60/40 edge after a court case that will itself cost many millions of dollars.
Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#105Is the HN headline correct? The bloomberg article says "trade secrets" which are very different from patents, the video also says that this is not primarily a patent case. edit: 0:48 in the video
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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#106Could a mod change the title to "Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets", which is what the Bloomberg article says (for now)?
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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does Google build such forsenics? Do they have spyware monitoring all their company laptops?
Yeah, they definitely have some really specific accusations about what went on: >>> To gain access to Waymo’s design server, Mr. Levandowski searched for and installed specialized software onto his company-issued laptop. Once inside, he downloaded 9.7 GB of Waymo’s highly confidential files and trade secrets, including blueprints, design files and testing documentation. Then he connected an external drive to the lapt…
My guess is he still had a network connection up when he did the copy. These kind of things like JAMF, osquery and so on upload what you do on your computer on a fairly frequent basis. After a certain company size all of them do something like this, and most of them do not spell out the amount of spying they do on their employee's work devices and office space.
Or he didn't do a secure wipe when he reformatted the drive and google inspected the computer when he returned it.
OR google modifies their laptops and has separate chips logging this stuff, which would be fairly impressive!
Or he didn't actually do any of this alledged stuff and it's all innocent.
We will find out in the court case either way!
Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#108Direct link to the complaint: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7dzPLynxaXuQjY3dkllZ2ZKb0k...
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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#109Google was on the other side before: https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/26/paypal-lawsuit-google/
What was the outcome of this lawsuit?
Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes good point. That would be super obvious that they stole it then.. "yea, could I order the BA33525 part that you custom built for somebody else.. yea I know its undocumented, but I know you have it somehow...."
You do that sort of thing all the time though with electronics: I'll open it up, and find some undocumented chip variant and see if I can source it elsewhere, I'll also search+email around to see if I can find a datasheet anywhere. If it's not printed on the chip you'll probably be able to get it out of JTAG.
Sure, when you have physical access to the device, which wouldn't seem to apply at all here.