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The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

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Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#151

Post by tomp »

kristianc wrote: post #63
tomp wrote: post #17

I don't understand why one would point out a person's race (unless it's relevant to the situaiton), but since the title did... I cannot fanthom how anyone could call this person "black". If anything, his complexion is similar to what US people call "hispanic" (although to me that's just southern European, not a distinct race).

And I don't understand why, with such alarming, metronomic regularity, is there always someone who pops up and says that race is a non-issue and that we shouldn't mention it. Or even in this case, that we shouldn't recognize his blackness. I mean really - would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough? The guy's race matters because it's important that people from minorities…

> would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough?

Well, I wouldn't tell him, but I would definitely ask him if he claimed he was black. Then he would probably explain that he doesn't mean "black" as color but "black" as culture (same as "Jewish" religion vs. "Jewish" ethnicity) and that's fine.

> people that look like them and sound like them can succeed.

After a (semi-)black president, is this really still relevant?!

> why there were two BAME people in my year of four thousand people at Oxford

Maybe because Oxford is in England and England is predominantly white?

In general, I oppose such categorisations, because (1) they're racist, and in emphasizing race, they encourage other people to do so as well, and (2) race is far less relevant than other characteristics, in particular class (wealth), and by focusing on race, you're playing a divide-and-conquer game, making groups of people hate each other, while ignoring the most important inequality in existance. (Which, coincidentially, was the most likely cause of the discrepancy you saw at Oxford.)

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#152

Post by tomp »

zyx321 wrote: post #100
tomp wrote: post #17

I don't understand why one would point out a person's race (unless it's relevant to the situaiton), but since the title did... I cannot fanthom how anyone could call this person "black". If anything, his complexion is similar to what US people call "hispanic" (although to me that's just southern European, not a distinct race).

Not to mention that (as of 2016) Black People don't even exist any more. Everyone who previously was "Black" is now "of Color". A Black Technologist is an expert in Black (=incomprehensible to laypeople) Technology. Since we're talking about search engines, I figure that's accurate enough.

That's as silly redefinition of language. And racist as well - unless white people are also "people of color" (technically, we're not white, but yellow-pink or something).

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#153

Post by tomp »

Nomentatus wrote: post #119
danbruc wrote: post #56

This escalated quickly. But I would actually somewhat side with the commenters saying that it is odd to explicitly mention the race in the article. I get that it is Black History Month in the US and in that context it seems appropriate but I would question whether having a Black History Month is a good idea in the first place. It is not obvious to me that explicitly pointing out a distinction is the best way to get r…

Why mention his race 'cause there's no such thing as unconscious bias and Valley funding and hires are as diverse as society is and... ah... oops, no, wait...

No, Valley hiring is about as diverse as Valley job applicants (= CS graduates) are... at least regarding to sex, I'm assuming it's similar for race as well. So I'd say you're focusing on the wrong problem.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#154

Post by tomp »

libertymcateer wrote: post #132
danbruc wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point that you (appear) to have made, and I am reacting to, is that ignoring the problem is the best way to address it, and I think that is demonstrably ineffective. I think you are misunderstanding the point treehau5 wanted to make. I think he wants to say the same thing as I [1], we should take action to boost disadvantaged groups in order to close existing gaps as quickly as possible but that should be done in…

The (now deleted) comment said: > I understand the sentiment, but I also understand that if you truly want to get rid of racial bias, gender bias, whatever else bias completely, then not paying it mention in any sphere is how you get there. I do not see how that is open to interpretation and it appears to run entirely contrary to your point.

That is correct.

There are black people who are very privileged (e.g. Obama) and white people who are very unprivileged (e.g. the homeless). So focusing on race will inevitable lead to bosting outcomes of some privileged people and ignoring other non-privileged people.

A better way to solve this problem would be to focus on people from disadvantaged backgrounds (== poor), regardless of race.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#155

Post by 08-15 »

wolfspider wrote: post #124
08-15 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or even in this case, that we shouldn't recognize his blackness. What?! He isn't black!! Dammit, look at him, he isn't even brown, never mind black! There is no blackness to acknowledge. > would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough? Yes, for fuck's sake, because that is what black means: very dark skin. Not having black ancestors, not being a citizen of a black country…

Hopefully, your career doesn't include the use of any form of logic because by using your line of thinking many Asians and Inuits would be considered white? I think your probably the only person you really know.

Yes. Because white is a color, an caucasian is a race.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#156

Post by EJTH »

intopieces wrote: post #44
EJTH wrote: post #28

Why is the race of the man relevant? Seems a bit odd to point it out in the title that he was of presumably african heritage?

If your question is honest, I'll give you an honest answer: When you're a member of a minority that is commonly portrayed in the media as being an 'other' / 'not good enough' / 'not likely to succeed', this kind of identification is heartening. It shows you that people like you can succeed, people like you have succeeded, and people like you matter . I'm going to go ahead and assume you're not a part of a group that…

It was honest. Didn't know that it was black history month, I live in Scandinavia where we never used black people as slaves (albeit you could see them in a zoo hundreds of years ago, but that was while arabic slavers was still pillaging islands taking virgin girls as far as the Danish west coast for slavery in harems).

I just don't see the point in poking a wound like that at frequent intervals...

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#157

Post by kristianc »

tomp wrote: post #151
kristianc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I don't understand why, with such alarming, metronomic regularity, is there always someone who pops up and says that race is a non-issue and that we shouldn't mention it. Or even in this case, that we shouldn't recognize his blackness. I mean really - would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough? The guy's race matters because it's important that people from minorities…

> would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough? Well, I wouldn't tell him, but I would definitely ask him if he claimed he was black. Then he would probably explain that he doesn't mean "black" as color but "black" as culture (same as "Jewish" religion vs. "Jewish" ethnicity) and that's fine. > people that look like them and sound like them can succeed. After a (semi-)blac…

> After a (semi-)black president, is this really still relevant?!

When the current President has committed to rolling back much of what said President achieved socially, economically and culturally, it's fair to say that Obama being elected wasn't the panacea people thought it would be.

> Maybe because Oxford is in England and England is predominantly white?

The number is off then by two orders of magnitude - and there are specific patterns of underachievement amongst black youth in England which exist when you control for other factors such as class and wealth. Black youngsters in the U.K. are twice as likely to be unemployed as white ones.

Focusing resources on the specific problems these communities face is not playing 'divide and conquer' any more than is providing specific support to LGBT communities who have a higher prevalence of mental health issues.

http://www.runnymedetrust.org/blog/how-black-young-men-are-o...

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#158

Post by illuminati1911 »

vixen99 wrote: post #99
empath75 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is full of alt-right people and trump supporters, which you'll see any time anything vaguely immigration, race or gender related gets posted. Just by nature of the subject matter, middle-aged white male libertarian types are going to be over-represented.

'Is full of alt-right people and trump supporters'? You could justly say that about Breitbart but unless you have a metric to support your assertions why should any credence be given to your opinion regarding the readership of HN? I have previously suggested the opposite opinion but I was wrong to do that. I simply do not know and neither do you. Room for a technical analysis if someone can be bothered.

Why the hell is this getting downvoted?

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#159

Post by illuminati1911 »

firstworldman wrote: post #42

HN is sometimes one of the more progressive wings of the geek community. It's disheartening to see the number of replies expressing dismay at race being an interesting and notable part of this story. Representation is a crucial concept in history and media, and a key element in why conversations about privilege are necessary. Rather than stating that you don't know why it would be relevant to mention the man's race,…

"Rather than stating that you don't know why it would be relevant to mention the man's race, why don't you just actually ask yourself the question? Why does it matter that he is black? You all are great problem solvers. I think you can come up with some interesting answers."

I can answer to this. His race is mentioned because today's radical left wing journalists think that separating minorities and putting them on a spotlight is progressive and going to fight against racism.

Well...that's pretty much absolute bullshit. Actually it's doing the complete opposite. For example in this article the credit for the achievement is stolen from the person himself and given to a generic group of people with only thing in common being the race. This is active way of telling his not "us", but his "them".

When journalists and people stop seeing black, white, yellow, green, gay, straight etc. or just stop caring about race and start seeing just people we most certainly won't have society without racism but we might have a society with much less racism from all sides.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#160

Post by tomp »

kristianc wrote: post #157
tomp wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough? Well, I wouldn't tell him, but I would definitely ask him if he claimed he was black. Then he would probably explain that he doesn't mean "black" as color but "black" as culture (same as "Jewish" religion vs. "Jewish" ethnicity) and that's fine. > people that look like them and sound like them can succeed. After a (semi-)blac…

> After a (semi-)black president, is this really still relevant?! When the current President has committed to rolling back much of what said President achieved socially, economically and culturally, it's fair to say that Obama being elected wasn't the panacea people thought it would be. > Maybe because Oxford is in England and England is predominantly white? The number is off then by two orders of magnitude - and the…

Interesting article. However, I wonder what's really causing the difference in achievement - at first, it would seem that just skin color doesn't explain it, as Indians (also darker-skinned) outperform even whites (according to the article). In theory it's possible that they're being discriminated against (in a racist way) but they outperform despite that, though I've never seen any study that would suggest such genetic superiority (in terms of IQ). Could it be culture (Asians/Chinese are well known for their "Tiger moms", maybe Indians have a similar achievement-oriented culture), or possibly family wealth (Asians coming to study to the UK are more likely to be from wealthy families)? I'm really curious.
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