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The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

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Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#61

Post by maxerickson »

danbruc wrote: post #56

This escalated quickly. But I would actually somewhat side with the commenters saying that it is odd to explicitly mention the race in the article. I get that it is Black History Month in the US and in that context it seems appropriate but I would question whether having a Black History Month is a good idea in the first place. It is not obvious to me that explicitly pointing out a distinction is the best way to get r…

There are not many efforts to get rid of distinctions.

People mostly work to get rid of unfair discrimination that is based on an arbitrary distinction.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#62

Post by treehau5 »

djtriptych wrote: post #58
treehau5 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing my comments because this thread has sparked unnecessary discourse and reactions that this comment is the cause of.

Probably much healthier to celebrate diversity than pretend it does not exist.

[removed]

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#63

Post by kristianc »

tomp wrote: post #17

I don't understand why one would point out a person's race (unless it's relevant to the situaiton), but since the title did... I cannot fanthom how anyone could call this person "black". If anything, his complexion is similar to what US people call "hispanic" (although to me that's just southern European, not a distinct race).

And I don't understand why, with such alarming, metronomic regularity, is there always someone who pops up and says that race is a non-issue and that we shouldn't mention it. Or even in this case, that we shouldn't recognize his blackness. I mean really - would you go and tell him he wasn't black to his face because his skin wasn't dark enough?

The guy's race matters because it's important that people from minorities see that people that look like them and sound like them can succeed. The guy's race matters because in the past history has been rewritten to give prominence to white faces even when black faces have carried out exactly the same roles [1]. It matters because they've had to overcome, in many instances, a system that is structurally biased against their success. And it matters because middle aged, white, heterosexual men, who completely coincidentally stand to gain the most from things staying as they are, are the ones who argue the loudest that we shouldn't recognize these structural biases. It matters because in order to succeed they have had to overcome obstacles that you haven't.

If you think that we are somehow overcompensating by even recognizing the color of someone's skin, perhaps you can also tell me why there were two BAME people in my year of four thousand people at Oxford. One of whom went to Eton.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Seacole

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#64

Post by [deleted] »

treehau5 wrote: post #52
firstworldman wrote: post #42

HN is sometimes one of the more progressive wings of the geek community. It's disheartening to see the number of replies expressing dismay at race being an interesting and notable part of this story. Representation is a crucial concept in history and media, and a key element in why conversations about privilege are necessary. Rather than stating that you don't know why it would be relevant to mention the man's race,…

Removing my comments because this thread has sparked unnecessary discourse and reactions that this comment is the cause of.

[deleted]

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#65

Post by libertymcateer »

treehau5 wrote: post #52
firstworldman wrote: post #42

HN is sometimes one of the more progressive wings of the geek community. It's disheartening to see the number of replies expressing dismay at race being an interesting and notable part of this story. Representation is a crucial concept in history and media, and a key element in why conversations about privilege are necessary. Rather than stating that you don't know why it would be relevant to mention the man's race,…

Removing my comments because this thread has sparked unnecessary discourse and reactions that this comment is the cause of.

> I understand the sentiment, but I also understand that if you truly want to get rid of racial bias, gender bias, whatever else bias completely, then not paying it mention in any sphere is how you get there.

We lived in a world where racism exists, regardless of your own personal attitude. This is just like global climate change - simply because you personally are carbon neutral doesn't mean we don't have a systematic crisis on our hands. You are far, far too willing to wash your hands of the whole topic, and it is very naive. The fact of the matter is that advantages and disadvantages are built into your socioeconomic class, and race is a very strong indicator of your class affiliation. On top of this, like or it not, there are a huge number of racists of all types, ranging from people who proudly burn crosses to much more subtle or unintentional racism. Denying that people's attitudes is something that must be taken into consideration is just... staggering. To put it quite simply: the fact that you, an enlightened individual, do not take race into your moral consideration is laudable but it in no way affects the fact that hundreds of millions of people are already racist and you are willfully putting blinders on to this fact. The most concerning part is that many of these actively (or passively) racist people are in positions of power. Ignoring that is just childish. [There is a strong analogy to this comic by XKCD about the ridiculous beliefs of US Senators.](https://xkcd.com/154/)

> And if you can't accept that people view this issue differently and think there are different solutions, you are part of the problem.

Pot, meet kettle.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#66

Post by dbaupp »

treehau5 wrote: post #52
firstworldman wrote: post #42

HN is sometimes one of the more progressive wings of the geek community. It's disheartening to see the number of replies expressing dismay at race being an interesting and notable part of this story. Representation is a crucial concept in history and media, and a key element in why conversations about privilege are necessary. Rather than stating that you don't know why it would be relevant to mention the man's race,…

Removing my comments because this thread has sparked unnecessary discourse and reactions that this comment is the cause of.

Ah yes, if you truly want to get rid of bugs in your software, then not mentioning them is the best way to get there. Start acting like your code has no bugs now!

The status quo doesn't change if people don't talk about, analyse and challenge it.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#67

Post by theoreticalCS »

intopieces wrote: post #44
EJTH wrote: post #28

Why is the race of the man relevant? Seems a bit odd to point it out in the title that he was of presumably african heritage?

If your question is honest, I'll give you an honest answer: When you're a member of a minority that is commonly portrayed in the media as being an 'other' / 'not good enough' / 'not likely to succeed', this kind of identification is heartening. It shows you that people like you can succeed, people like you have succeeded, and people like you matter . I'm going to go ahead and assume you're not a part of a group that…

Do you say this as someone from a member of a minority? Because I am a "minority" and I certainly don't care about going out of my way to find this kind of identification.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#68

Post by Cenk »

gragas wrote: post #50
bglazer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you why it's important to note the race of an underrepresented minority who made a notable contribution. I teach programming to a group of black young adults. Self image is very important to most young folks. Just seeing other black people who are successful computer programmers helps them imagine themselves as computer programmers. Identity matters to young people who are trying to shape their own self im…

Then why is it strictly forbidden to write an article with a title that caters specifically to young white children?

One could say that almost every article caters specifically to white people.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#69

Post by djtriptych »

treehau5 wrote: post #62
djtriptych wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably much healthier to celebrate diversity than pretend it does not exist.

[removed]

It's irresponsible to mention quotas and affirmative action, but not the systemic (and legal) racism and sexism that made those programs necessary in the first place.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#70

Post by godshatter »

bglazer wrote: post #43
tomp wrote: post #17

I don't understand why one would point out a person's race (unless it's relevant to the situaiton), but since the title did... I cannot fanthom how anyone could call this person "black". If anything, his complexion is similar to what US people call "hispanic" (although to me that's just southern European, not a distinct race).

I can tell you why it's important to note the race of an underrepresented minority who made a notable contribution. I teach programming to a group of black young adults. Self image is very important to most young folks. Just seeing other black people who are successful computer programmers helps them imagine themselves as computer programmers. Identity matters to young people who are trying to shape their own self im…

I would have thought that it would have been more powerful for the article not to mention race, as it really doesn't except in the title, and just have the picture of the guy.

Why? Because then the article isn't trying to claim that one of the most notable things about him (notable enough to be in the title of the article) is his race. Young black people would see him being lauded for his work, regardless of any other aspect about him.

Otherwise, you end up with the idea that the article is saying "Hey look! A black person actually did something notable in tech!" Not the message you want to get across.

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