Social Media Needs a Travel Mode • Hacker News Board

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#71

Post by dublinben » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #22

tptacek wrote: post #4

To be effective, this would need to become a kind of norm for overseas travelers, the same way traveler's checks used to be. The idea would be that just as you don't carry a bag with your birth certificate, stock certificates, property titles, and jewelry with you, you also don't carry a 10 year archive of every email you've ever sent or a detailed list of every person you've ever spoken to. In particular, it needs t…

>>In particular, it needs to be normal enough that a significant fraction of all travelers do it. Yes, exactly. Border agents are trained to look for anything out of the ordinary. Currently, using a feature like this would immediately raise a huge red flag and encourage more questioning, detention and possibly even deportation based on the person's country of origin and the mood of the border agent. Incidentally, tha…

Thankfully, as US citizens we are free to establish a norm of using features like this, with no fear of deportation.

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#72

Post by binarymax » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #47

binarymax wrote: post #31

An article with an interesting suggestion and a noble goal but I'm not the first one to say it: Technology cannot solve the problem we currently face with erosion of privacy at the border! These clever tricks trying to get around the issue only kicks the problem downfield, and likely won't effectively work. If they found out you have travel mode enabled - you may be denied entry or worse (note the comment from @mholt…

They can't detain US citizens longer than a few hours.

What if I'm a US citizen traveling to Canada, and their border patrol is similarly vigilant? I could be denied entry to Canada.

Sadly this policy is being picked up in many other countries :(

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#73

Post by zapt02 » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

Bokagha wrote: post #69

Why not go further with the idea of a Travel Mode toggle and have it be tied to the device itself. This cuts out any possibility of any data being left on the device from being analyzed easily, social media or otherwise. Google and/or Apple could add this as a new menu toggle similar to Airplane mode. Once switched on, while in an airport, prevents the device from being unlocked. Then by utilizing geofencing, once th…

What if the border agent takes your phone outside? It would go something like:

> Tell me your password > OK, not sit here while I go out to unlock your phone.

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#74

Post by ppog » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #53

mholt wrote: post #10

How do you turn a travel mode off? Once border patrol knows this feature exists and how it works, the jig is up. Any expiration/timeout would just cause you to be detained for the duration the travel mode is enabled. A second password to turn it off would just cause that second password to be coerced out of you. Location-based deactivation can be spoofed.

US citizens can't be detained indefinitely at the border. The limit is a few hours.

That's fine for US citizens entering the US, but any 'travel mode' needs to work for the outbound trip too. If the country you're visiting has adopted a US-style border stance, then you're in no better a position than a non-US citizen visiting the US: the border forces of that other country can detain you until travel mode expires if they want. It seems like "They can't hold me for days while they wait for the mode to expire" only works for citizens returning to their own countries.

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#75

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #62

maxerickson wrote: post #5

One thing I wonder about is how quickly a travel mode would become grounds for denial of entry.

It's a real concern for non-citizens. US citizens can't be denied entry.

Right. I was assuming that was reasonably well understood.

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#76

Post by lj3 » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:29 PM UTC

Didn't Moxie come up with something like this a while back? It was a bit of a non-starter since you had to install a custom version of Android in order to get it work

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#77

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:30 PM UTC

mholt wrote: post #14

tptacek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that they cannot in fact make you turn travel mode off, because travel mode doesn't turn off. It's a time lock. The point is that while locked, Facebook and Google Mail are still usable; they just don't have your whole history available on them. If we stipulate that your second paragraph is true, then travel mode is in fact a complete countermeasure to that behavior. (I don't think it's true).

Why wouldn't they just detain you until the time runs out?

The idea is that it would be common, like not carrying large amounts of cash. There are good reasons for it other than limiting border searches.

Some people have suggested making travel mode invisible, but it might be better if it showed the start and end dates. Customs will ask anyway, but if the time period covers the entire trip, there's less reason to search the account.

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#78

Post by rdl » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:30 PM UTC

I think you could easily justify something like this as a "travel mode" not just for border security, but "in case your phone is lost/stolen while traveling". Make it so you have full or enhanced access to very recent stuff (photos, status updates, etc.) from the trip itself, and don't have access to as much from before the trip. Help defeat localization settings in the place where you're traveling, and get tourist/visitor-specific ads instead of local ads. Value for the user (usability and safety) as well as for the social media network and advertisers.

The other form of this which would make sense: worksafe mode or public mode. If you're logging into your facebook/twitter account from a public computer, perhaps it doesn't have as full and unlimited access, and doesn't have access to non-reversible account actions, and strongly logs out. If you're logging in from a place defined as "work", it doesn't have notifications, certain groups, etc. (the "giving a meeting presentation on your laptop when a racy notification from spouse pops up" problem).

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#79

Post by RodericDay » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:30 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #72

idlewords wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't detain US citizens longer than a few hours.

What if I'm a US citizen traveling to Canada, and their border patrol is similarly vigilant? I could be denied entry to Canada. Sadly this policy is being picked up in many other countries :(

Our border patrol isn't "similarly vigilant". That's a meme being spread by a very dedicated account on HN, probably to seed the grounds for a lot of "whataboutism".

Re: Social Media Needs a Travel Mode

#80

Post by deong » Wed, Feb 22, 2017, 10:31 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #51

k-mcgrady wrote: post #20

I feel it would be quite obvious looking at your device and it's lack of data that such a feature was in force and they would just deny you entry. Nice idea but the problems need fixed in law. IMO technical solutions are just temporary bandaids.

I agree that technical solutions are bandaids. However, US citizens can't be denied entry. They can be delayed for a few hours, not longer.

Your device can be confiscated for much longer, of course. You could take that time difference and hopefully permanently wipe account data before the lock expired, but that has the drawback that it's terribly inconvenient for you and causes the government no great concern at all, so it might simply become routine procedure.