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Say goodbye to search analytics

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Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#31

Post by briansmith »

vladimir wrote: post #25

To be honest, I don't understand how using HTTPS in Google search will help users to browse web more securely. I am not going to use this feature. The bad thing is that lots of non-technical users who care about security and privacy will use it, and they'll get an illusion that their web surfing has become more secure.

It's not an illusion. Your ISP can't see what you're searching for. The coffee shop wifi administrator can't see what you're searching for. Your boss can't find out what you're searching for from your mobile phone over your company's wifi network. The owners of the websites in the SERPs can't see what you searched for, and they can't give that information to anybody else (e.g. Facebook Connect).

(Well, they can all do traffic analysis. But, for Google searches, traffic analysis is too much work for almost any of them to do and the results would be so inconclusive that it's practically useless.)

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#33

Post by pierrefar »

Two points of relevance:

1. Say I walk into a shop and they can't help me, so they suggest that I go another shop down the road. When I go into the second shop, I always tell them that the first sent me. It's not an invasion of privacy at all and I think it's common courtesy.

So I don't understand why a search engine referral to a website is any different.

What I do worry about is what the target website does in terms of behavioral tracking, which is a bit creepy. Merely transferring referral info and letting websites use that in aggregate so they can understand their traffic better is something is not that creepy.

2. Google Webmaster Tools recently started showing keyword ranking and traffic data. If you study the data they share in WMT vs Google Analytics, a few patterns emerge. In a way, they are taking away the data Analytics shows and then give it back in WM Tools. This is one area to keep an eye on.

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#34

Post by vladimir »

briansmith wrote: post #31
vladimir wrote: post #25

To be honest, I don't understand how using HTTPS in Google search will help users to browse web more securely. I am not going to use this feature. The bad thing is that lots of non-technical users who care about security and privacy will use it, and they'll get an illusion that their web surfing has become more secure.

It's not an illusion. Your ISP can't see what you're searching for. The coffee shop wifi administrator can't see what you're searching for. Your boss can't find out what you're searching for from your mobile phone over your company's wifi network. The owners of the websites in the SERPs can't see what you searched for, and they can't give that information to anybody else (e.g. Facebook Connect). (Well, they can all d…

I don't think ISP cannot see what I'm searching for if Google allows me to use HTTPS. When we use HTTPS, data is encrypted. But URLs I'm querying are still open for anyone. If someone knows that I queried, for example, http://www.google.co.uz/?q=google, it's pretty easy to understand what I've been searching for.

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#35

Post by eagleal »

sketerpot wrote: post #26
paraschopra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But search engines shouldn't block referrer by default. Majority of users don't care about telling web masters what they were searching for. So search engines should only let users who do care about privacy to block referrer, block it by default is a poor choice (unless you are DDG and privacy is your differentiator)

I would actually really like for my search engine referrer headers to be blocked, even without the privacy concerns, for one simple reason: some web sites highlight the search terms they find in search engine referrer headers. That annoys the crap out of me, and I usually end up either closing the tab or going to the URL bar and adding and deleting a space in there, then reloading the page without referrer headers. W…

Not only that, but sites like ExpertExchange abuse the referrer header. Since EE uses the referrer to build the content (or at least it's part of the process), can this be a problem to their business?

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#36

Post by briansmith »

vladimir wrote: post #34
briansmith wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an illusion. Your ISP can't see what you're searching for. The coffee shop wifi administrator can't see what you're searching for. Your boss can't find out what you're searching for from your mobile phone over your company's wifi network. The owners of the websites in the SERPs can't see what you searched for, and they can't give that information to anybody else (e.g. Facebook Connect). (Well, they can all d…

I don't think ISP cannot see what I'm searching for if Google allows me to use HTTPS. When we use HTTPS, data is encrypted. But URLs I'm querying are still open for anyone. If someone knows that I queried, for example, http://www.google.co.uz/?q=google , it's pretty easy to understand what I've been searching for.

HTTPS doesn't send the URL unencrypted. The intermediary can tell that you access google.com from the DNS records and from the TLS certificate, and it can analyze the lengths and timings of the request and response, but that's it.

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#37

Post by vladimir »

briansmith wrote: post #36
vladimir wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think ISP cannot see what I'm searching for if Google allows me to use HTTPS. When we use HTTPS, data is encrypted. But URLs I'm querying are still open for anyone. If someone knows that I queried, for example, http://www.google.co.uz/?q=google , it's pretty easy to understand what I've been searching for.

HTTPS doesn't send the URL unencrypted. The intermediary can tell that you access google.com from the DNS records and from the TLS certificate, and it can analyze the lengths and timings of the request and response, but that's it.

I didn't know that. Thank you so much.

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#38

Post by [deleted] »

vladimir wrote: post #34
briansmith wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an illusion. Your ISP can't see what you're searching for. The coffee shop wifi administrator can't see what you're searching for. Your boss can't find out what you're searching for from your mobile phone over your company's wifi network. The owners of the websites in the SERPs can't see what you searched for, and they can't give that information to anybody else (e.g. Facebook Connect). (Well, they can all d…

I don't think ISP cannot see what I'm searching for if Google allows me to use HTTPS. When we use HTTPS, data is encrypted. But URLs I'm querying are still open for anyone. If someone knows that I queried, for example, http://www.google.co.uz/?q=google , it's pretty easy to understand what I've been searching for.

[deleted]

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#39

Post by ErrantX »

pierrefar wrote: post #33

Two points of relevance: 1. Say I walk into a shop and they can't help me, so they suggest that I go another shop down the road. When I go into the second shop, I always tell them that the first sent me. It's not an invasion of privacy at all and I think it's common courtesy. So I don't understand why a search engine referral to a website is any different. What I do worry about is what the target website does in term…

I'd say point #1 isn't 100% the same. In your analogy search engine referrals might be akin to the shop you just left putting a sticker with their name on you.

Re: Say goodbye to search analytics

#40

Post by pierrefar »

ErrantX wrote: post #39
pierrefar wrote: post #33

Two points of relevance: 1. Say I walk into a shop and they can't help me, so they suggest that I go another shop down the road. When I go into the second shop, I always tell them that the first sent me. It's not an invasion of privacy at all and I think it's common courtesy. So I don't understand why a search engine referral to a website is any different. What I do worry about is what the target website does in term…

I'd say point #1 isn't 100% the same. In your analogy search engine referrals might be akin to the shop you just left putting a sticker with their name on you.

Yes, fair point, but other scenarios are deemed acceptable too: referring shop giving me their business card to give to the destination shop, or them calling ahead "to check" if what I wanted is in stock, or telling me to say "Joe from Shop X sent you" and they'll take care of me.

Also, two companies can partner and Company 1 can give a special discount to its customers to buy from Company 2, using a special promotion code.

My point still stands I think: there are many kinds of referral tracking we deem acceptable in the offline world.

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