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Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

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Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#291

Post by soheil »

mathgeek wrote: post #148
soheil wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand it's not the most conventional way of doing it, but why it's someone "higher up" and that's a bad thing? Instacart is not Mother Teresa, its sole purpose is to make profit and I want it to do that as much as it possibly can. I want this service to exist so I don't have to feel like a chimp in a grocery store with a basket going from aisle to aisle in fact why do I even need to justify why I want it to ex…

> I want this service to exist so I don't have to feel like a chimp in a grocery store with a basket going from aisle to aisle in fact why do I even need to justify why I want it to exist? You're asking why you need to justify paying someone else to "feel like a chimp" so that you don't have to?

They may not feel like a chimp and also I like to be the kind of chimp best referred to as a code monkey, thank you! And what makes you think grocery stores with all their deceitful marketing will exist as we know them today? If everyone is a worker for Instacart shopping on behalf of someone else the stores will have to adapt and there won't be any point of distracting those workers with random product placements forcing them to move aisle to aisle since they're only allowed to buy whatever they're asked to buy and nothing more. It seems very shortsighted to think pain can only be transferred and not eliminated altogether with technology if that's what you're implying.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#292

Post by beejiu »

harryh wrote: post #246
jasonpeacock wrote: post #123

I'm an avid Instacart user, and I refuse to pay the service fee, nor the tip. Companies need to pay the drivers fair wages, and charge the customers enough to do so. Don't push that responsibility to the customer. Also, the service fee is perfect example of a Dark Pattern[1]. The actual service fee option (which is pre-selected at 10%) is hidden below the fold in the iPad app (and iOS?) checkout widgets. You have to…

Do you also not tip at restaurants? Cultural norms are what they are. Just because you don't like them isn't a good reason to screw over working people.

But surely it is not common to tip delivery drivers in the US? (Correct me if I am wrong.) Tipping is normally done for 'personal service' type jobs, e.g. where you have someone wait for you during a meal.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#293

Post by pshposh »

foxhound6 wrote: post #281
pshposh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of things did you use them for and what was the cost? If you don't mind me asking.

I used to work for Kozmo.com way back when. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to field them as best I can.

Oh neat! What's your opinion on their collapse and do you think that kind of business model can survive today?

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#294

Post by thomasz »

jjfine wrote: post #71
CamelCaseName wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I go to a physical store I frequently end up buying things I didn't really intend to, but with Instacart, I only end up with the things I actually wanted. Specifically what products do you end up buying? I have always wanted some insight as to who buys these items near the register and why, as I rarely see anyone pick them up.

They're not necessarily talking about just those items. The entire store is designed so you buy things you weren't intending to buy. You never said/thought: "Ooh look ice cream's on sale..." and failed to resist?

That is even easier with a website that has detailed data about your shopping.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#295

Post by harryh »

beejiu wrote: post #292
harryh wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also not tip at restaurants? Cultural norms are what they are. Just because you don't like them isn't a good reason to screw over working people.

But surely it is not common to tip delivery drivers in the US? (Correct me if I am wrong.) Tipping is normally done for 'personal service' type jobs, e.g. where you have someone wait for you during a meal.

Tipping is common for delivery drivers in the US.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#296

Post by username223 »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #50
username223 wrote: post #12

I'm poor enough to buy my own groceries, but if you're rich enough not to do that, then "tip"/pay your servants in cash.

If you do that then only the driver gets the money, not the shopper. Plus, if the tip button worked as intended, why would it matter how you tip?

> why would it matter how you tip?

Taxes. People are supposed to pay taxes on tips, but one of the things that lets people live on sub-minimum wages is not reporting tips. Tipping is BS, and I wish it would go away, but this is unfortunately how the US economy works.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#297

Post by etjossem »

sebleon wrote: post #81

Pooling tips is quite common place in the restaurant industry, this isn't exactly a new way to f * over workers. While this move will reduce the pay for some shoppers, it will help many shoppers that earn less in tips for structural reasons. Ie. servicing low-income neighborhoods, racism & sexism from the tipper, etc

I agree with you, but while the tip pool is sacred (employers shouldn't touch it), a "service fee" is not. Describing it as a service fee allows Instacart to keep a portion of it rather than distributing it all back to employees on the ground.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#298

Post by tptacek »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #5

> Instead of the tipping option appearing on the checkout page as it originally had, a default 10 percent “service fee” sat in its place. If I could take a guess, I'd say this is more related to the user experience. I hate tipping. I'd rather just attach a 10-20% fee instead of needlessly evaluating someone else's performance with every delivery. Or better yet, I'd rather just use a company that adequately pays its o…

That's because you're doing it wrong. Don't evaluate their performance. Consider the tip a "variable buyer price-sensitivity upcharge". You're comfortable paying 20%. Me too. So: just always pay 20%, without thinking about it.

That's in fact the actual economic purpose of the tip anyways. People think it's to encourage good service, but in fact, in jobs where you can make significant money tipping, there's already competition for slots. And, either way, insurance of good service is the job of the business owner. Any way you slice it, a tip is simply a cost sharing mechanism.

Amazon Prime Now and Grubhub both ask you to "tip" their drivers before they even do the run. You can't possibly be asked to evaluate performance in those cases. I'm fine with that, too! I'm not sensitive to the amount of money we're talking about, but across all their jobs, those tips probably make a pretty significant difference.

What's not OK is transforming a "tip" to a "service charge" that is then split with other elements of the business.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#299

Post by zeveb »

b3lvedere wrote: post #211
eridius wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, for pizza places that charge a delivery fee, most of the time that does not go to the driver. You should still tip your driver.

Which is the problem in the first place. Why are we taught by people to tip some personell and not to tip others? Because the first group has a very low income. That's why. Because corporations cannot be trusted to treat their people nicely. That's why. Because the first group usually works hard and shows effort, while the others don't. That's why. I don't mind to tip when someone has done an excellent service, but i…

> Why are we taught by people to tip some personell and not to tip others?

> Because corporations cannot be trusted to treat their people nicely. That's why.

No, it's noblesse oblige: I am well off, and therefor it is my duty to show my appreciation to those who perform services for me.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#300

Post by x2f10 »

x1798DE wrote: post #258
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #5

> Instead of the tipping option appearing on the checkout page as it originally had, a default 10 percent “service fee” sat in its place. If I could take a guess, I'd say this is more related to the user experience. I hate tipping. I'd rather just attach a 10-20% fee instead of needlessly evaluating someone else's performance with every delivery. Or better yet, I'd rather just use a company that adequately pays its o…

> Or better yet, I'd rather just use a company that adequately pays its own employees instead of attempting to offload a portion of that cost on its customers. I also really dislike tipping, but in reality it's not the cost they are offloading onto customers ( all the cost is paid by the customers, since costs are paid out of revenues, which come from customers), but rather they are offloading compensation decisions…

Semantics.

There are industries where the employees are paid less than minimum wage as anticipated tips are factored into their overall compensation. If the tips do not meet the minimum wage threshold, the business is responsible for the difference. In this case, the costs (wages) are being offloaded by tips. Not to mention the industries that pay low wages as the tips subsidize a living wage.

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

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