Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

recode.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 371 posts

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#171

Post by mattm »

purple-again wrote: post #127
pcurve wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. My favorite delivery + service start up is this. https://www.enjoy.com/ You should see which VC are backing this ridiculous idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Johnson_(businessman)#Enjo... I have no idea how they would every make any money. With every order, they bleed cash.

Hmmm...I'm confused. This is from their "How It Works" section on their website: "Yup, that’s right. The only thing you pay for is your new device. How is it possible? Well, we spend our money on training awesome Experts instead of on building stores. So, you get an amazing experience instead of just a device." That doesn't explain how it works at all. I'm guessing they have partnerships with the supplier so the cust…

AFAICT, you buy from their site so they are probably getting some kind of commission. But they only have 20 products in total that you can buy from their site. Plus they have someone spend up to an hour training you on the product.

Their Experts page says all of them are full-time and not contractors and it looks like they have about 50 people listed there - https://www.enjoy.com/pages/meet-the-experts

I went through the first part of their checkout process and they suggest accessories to purchase with the item so maybe it's an upsell thing? Maybe the in-person "expert" is really just an incentivized sales person that you've invited into your home that will try to push other accessories that you "need" for the product you've purchased.

I imagine the kind of people that would need this service would be people that are not technically adept and could probably be easily manipulated into purchasing things that they don't really need.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#173

Post by flukus »

prostoalex wrote: post #163
closeparen wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the very long run, maybe. I don't see NIMBYs losing steam and I don't see the migration into major metros slowing down either. Maybe when the self-driving car comes?

Retailers go where the customers go, though. Two years ago downtown L.A. didn't have a Whole Foods Market, and Instacart-branded packages were commonplace in residential complexes. Low and behold downtown L.A. gets a Whole Foods Market. Someone at Instacart probably has the right numbers, but combined with Costco delivering more of their everyday stuff, anecdotally I see fewer Instacart bags around.

> Retailers go where the customers go, though.

If they're allowed and if the customers have enough density to support the retailer.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#174

Post by pshposh »

bluejekyll wrote: post #78
pshposh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of Kozmo.com which funnily enough also went defunct in 2001. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozmo.com Although they did more than just food.

I loved Kozmo. I used them at least once a week; I still miss them.

What kinds of things did you use them for and what was the cost? If you don't mind me asking.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#175

Post by solidsnack9000 »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #36

When are we as a society going to tire of company executives feigning stupidity and ignorance when it comes to these very deliberate actions ? All these executives--and likely all the developers, too--know exactly why these business model and app changes were made. The reasons given in the article are completely accurate. It can be boiled down to this: Money > People.

"If only the Czar knew!"

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#176

Post by grandalf »

MegaButts wrote: post #146
thehardsphere wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sure. They usually know they're going to lose money going in, and they can pick all sorts of things to lose their money on. That doesn't explain why the picked this one particular thing to lose money on.

Of course I can't find the source for it now, but during Instacart's last fundraising round they did some really weird stuff. For starters, the investors were only allowed to view their financials in a printed book in a room, and were not allowed to take pictures or write anything down to mull it over and make a decision. Apart from that, you have to understand that there are a lot of investors, and if you can convin…

> But the problem is they get traction by operating at a loss, so when they try to run profitably they inevitably fail as people bawk at the prices.

Well, in a competitive environment like Uber vs Lyft, both companies subsidize the service to the benefit of the customers (and employees) in an attempt to maximize market share.

There is a lot to gain by becoming the market leader in a service like ride sharing or grocery shopping. The market is very big and it's a basic need that most people have.

If anything, I think there is too much expectation by investors that a success in a non-ridesharing market will generate earlier-stage financials that look like Uber's.

With Instacart, the value add is such a no brainer. Imagine if everyone had to go to a shop, park, and walk around picking out mail that had been addressed to them. It would be hugely inefficient. This is why the postal service delivers mail to everyone's home.

The service is considered so essential to the functioning of society that it's viewed as a legitimate state-run monopoly and aggressively subsidized.

Most people spend significantly more time grocery shopping than they do picking up letters and parcels. This is a significant amount of leisure time wasted.

Instacart can also easily swoop in and source certain high-margin goods on its own, or offer price comparison or even auction-style services where merchants bid on the virtual cart and it is fulfilled by the merchant offering the lowest price.

All these are obvious next steps for Instacart, which wisely sees Grocery stores as a relic of the past ready to be replaced by something better.

Grocers are market makers who specialize in understanding demand patterns. This is what makes a grocer successful, but grocers must spend lots of money simply to help alleviate the drudgery of being at the store shopping for one's self. One place near where I live features an elaborate player piano, hot bar, oyster bar, and wine bar!

Most customers don't buy the oysters or a glass of wine, but having those side-acts makes being at the store pushing a cart through aisles feel less like demeaning, robotic drudgery.

Instacart has found a better way. You take out the app, easily search for products, see recently/frequently purchased products, set up a delivery time, and you're done. It all arrives as if by magic.

Maybe someday the shopping will be done by actual robots and the delivery by drone. But even in that world, the market-maker wisdom of local grocers will be just as relevant as it is today, and the high quality shopping experience of the Instacart app will be at least as useful.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#177

Post by sosborn »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #92
paulcole wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I break even by paying someone else that $10, if I value my leisure time as equivalent to my wage. I value my leisure time at the arbitrary amount of $1000/hr. Have I broken even if I pay $1000 to someone so they'll do my grocery shopping?

This principal is why we don't make our own shoes and milk our own cows, just at a different scale.

Time isn't really the limiting factor for those two activities.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#178

Post by grandalf »

brokenmasonjars wrote: post #165
grandalf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who live in the suburbs without cars. I've ordered lots of Instacart in NYC and Chicago. I used to have it drop off a few things at the office for lunch, and a few to go in the fridge for lunches later in the week. Consider that Instacart will charge 10% to deliver a baguette and some cheese, which can make lunch for several people. This is a way better deal that Seamless. Seamless charges what amounts to a…

> People who live in the suburbs without cars. I live in the suburbs with multiple cars. That said I would love if a service (ideally for grocery and restaurant delivery) was in my area. I just don't feel like dealing with rush hour; or the time it takes to grocery shop. I have tried taskrabbit and hiring someone off craigslist. I had better luck with craigslist (for grocery shopping), yet then all sorts of legalitie…

Download the app, Instacart might be there. I know it's in a lot of the Chicago suburbs.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#179

Post by xerophyte12932 »

There is a very interesting Podcast on the tipping vs service fee debate on Freakonomics:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/danny-meyer/

It shows how the "Hospitality Included" program removed tips from their restaurants. I guess its not always the idea, but also how you implement it. Instacart tried to do the same thing but appear to have totally botched it up

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#180

Post by Negitivefrags »

lostlogin wrote: post #156
mikeash wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to pay them better and forbid them from taking tips. Make it clear to customers that it's not even allowed, let alone expected. Unfortunately, I don't think tipping culture is going away any time soon.

The worst part for me - places here in NZ are trying to introduce it. I've solved it by not going back, that that doesn't work if the practice spreads.

I also live in NZ. I've seen a few places prompt for tips but typically only in areas tourists frequent. I always just tip nothing.

I'm pretty sure they are just doing it to bait Americans.

Post reply on HN