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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#441

Post by naravara »

scrollaway wrote: post #120
shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

> What do you guys think? I think this is nothing new. US mentality has been going very sharply that way for years; two sides of a coin becoming more and more extreme and caring more about hating the other side than about what's good for the country. People bending over and accepting absurd things from their presidents, or politicians in general, just because they're "on my team". Roll back a few years. How is it oka…

>two sides of a coin becoming more and more extreme and caring more about hating the other side than about what's good for the country.

Not really. [url=https://img-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s... polarization in the US is driven entirely by the GOP. Full stop.[/url]

You can't address the problem if you're blinding yourself to its causes. The Democrats have, by and large, branded themselves as the party of non-partisan centrist technocrats, not as liberal firebrands. Sanders' defeat in the primaries only cemented this.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#442

Post by Arizhel »

rrauenza wrote: post #298
spinlock wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few people I know who is an enthusiastic supporter of Hillary. I like her because of her track record on children's issues, 9-11 and the Iran deal (among others). I'm also conservative so I like that the last time she lived at 1400 Pensilvania Ave the government was running a surplus.

I drive Foothill Expressway in Silicon Valley to work everyday. One of the weirdest things I noticed this election cycle was the near absence of Hillary bumper stickers. The lack of Trump ones, I understood. But when Obama ran, there were Obama bumper stickers everywhere... But today, I notice perhaps one car a week with an H sticker.

I live near DC. On the weekends when I'm driving in and around DC, I almost never see Hillary stickers, even though DC is a thoroughly liberal town. It was like this before the election too. I saw far more old Obama stickers than I did Hillary stickers.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#443

Post by deanCommie »

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

White conservatives saw the attention disenfranchised groups were receiving in terms of trying to even the balance of justice (legal and social) and thought "Hey what about us!"

I'd support this point of view if 99% of "alternative views" didn't end up being some form of "Immigrants are rapists", "Brown people are terrorists", and "Climate change is a Chinese conspiracy".

There is a difference between having an open mind and having a sieve for a brain.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#444

Post by leesalminen »

staunch wrote: post #362
darkmouth wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By less fortunate I mean people fleeing war. Refugees. If you think being in a war is same as being poor in the US, you're mistaken.

Have you been poor in the US? Have you lived your entire life in the constant stress of not being able to pay for food, housing, or medical care? Have you had your house repeatedly robbed? Have you been assaulted and mugged walking home? Rejected from every good job because you're uneducated? Spent countless hours cold to the bone because your power got shut off? Had half your friends become drug addicts? Lived witho…

Agreed. Poverty in the US is very similar to poverty elsewhere. And hey, if you live in Chicago's south side you're basically in a war zone!

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#445

Post by jat850 »

pklausler wrote: post #359
sgift wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People start throwing link after link of facts and don't want to even reason about ideas. It's hopeless and I end up keeping my mouth shut. So, you take a contrarian view. People respond with facts. So, where's the problem? You don't like the facts? Don't want to hear them or what exactly?

The facts had a liberal bias.

Facts don't have any bias, as I understand it. The collection of facts presented or absorbed can be picked or ignored with bias.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#446

Post by jrs235 »

jat850 wrote: post #431
jrs235 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment I can't reply to jat850's coment >Maybe, but there's probably something to be said for social cost that make that argument somewhat less valid. Herd immunity. Seat belt and helmet laws, etc. Note that I am not taking a position here on vaccinations or anything else, just that it's not the best point one could make (other than for some casual amusement at cognitive gear grinding and confusion). It'd be t…

Just as a heads up: The deeper a comment chain gets, the longer HN hits the pause button on allowing a reply (to prevent flame-warring, I think). I understand that it's not maybe intended to be a jerk or has the deeper purpose of getting someone to rethink their position more carefully. But it's just a bit of a jerk-ish way to do so (in my view) - one that may be perceived as an attack on someone's intelligence and c…

Excellent points. I will try to take a more-flies-with-honey approach in the future. Thank you for your insights and thoughts.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#447

Post by jstimpfle »

throwaway713 wrote: post #238
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

As someone who frequently plays devil's advocate, I'll usually argue the opposite viewpoint of the person I'm speaking with just to see how they think, and I've found there are two types of people: those who become emotional and angry, and those who engage in logical debate. This seems to be more of a personality trait than a political thing.

There are just no arguments for homeopathy or Young Earth Creationism. It's a natural reaction to get angry when someone argues in clearly illogical ways and is not open to rational discussion. (it's natural not because "rational" is somehow "better", but because of the helplessness of the situation).

Not every "idea" is valuable to be heard. That said, you don't state what topics you argue.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#448

Post by antisthenes »

throwaway713 wrote: post #238
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

As someone who frequently plays devil's advocate, I'll usually argue the opposite viewpoint of the person I'm speaking with just to see how they think, and I've found there are two types of people: those who become emotional and angry, and those who engage in logical debate. This seems to be more of a personality trait than a political thing.

I've found people who do this to be incredibly toxic, mostly because more often than not the opposite viewpoint has been disproved by a body of scientific literature with which the "devil's advocate" is entirely unfamiliar.

In that case, playing the contrarian is nothing more than trolling.

When doing this, make sure the opposite viewpoint is at least as valid as the one you're arguing against.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#449

Post by [deleted] »

sseagull wrote: post #241
rdl wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are "2A voters" don't even consider the status quo to be acceptable -- they want HPA (removal of suppressors from NFA); probably a removal of SBR/SBS (treat them like handguns), repeal of Hughes and 922(r), and potentially nationwide reciprocity and potentially pre-emption. They also want reinforcement in SCOTUS decisions of 2A as an "individual right" vs. a "collective right" (which is why I don't support…

I'm pretty liberal and (used to be) a gun owner. I can see supporting those things (I personally would like nationwide reciprocity [0]). It's just very hard for me to understand how this issue (or others like abortion) would be above all others. You are voting for a government with a tremendous amount of power and responsibility (military and defense, infrastructure, running a huge economy, world trade, healthcare, e…

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