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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#141

Post by JustSomeNobody »

gambiting wrote: post #64
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

I think it's because "alternative point of view" immediately makes me think of someone saying that global warming is fake, and yeah,I'm not willing to debate that, it's just not worth my time. I'm curious what sort of ideas you have in mind though.

Your comment is very interesting. You immediately started "shouting down" the OP. Only at the end, did you ask about their ideas.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#142

Post by darkmouth »

Yhippa wrote: post #86
gambiting wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because "alternative point of view" immediately makes me think of someone saying that global warming is fake, and yeah,I'm not willing to debate that, it's just not worth my time. I'm curious what sort of ideas you have in mind though.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

I am a staunch liberal and I don't understand the hostility towards deportation of illegal immigrants either. Calling illegal immigrants undocumented immigrants doesn't make the illegal part go away.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#143

Post by aorloff »

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries

What I'm hearing people saying is that they want a candidate who will talk about compassion for the economic futures of Americans.

If you are barely making ends meet, you don't want a candidate talking about compassion for people from less fortunate countries, when out in the countryside of America you see a lot of people who could hardly be less fortunate.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#144

Post by skylan_q »

Yhippa wrote: post #89
sxcurry wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies, and I can't spend all my time debating lies. Please suggest a contrarian view that's worth discussing.

> Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies What do you mean by this?

It means what it says it means. He's in an echo chamber and well-grounded counterfactuals are no longer worth considering anymore.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#145

Post by darkmouth »

dmode wrote: post #131
Yhippa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

Immigration laws were already being enforced vigorously. Obama administration set the record in deportation and was often called the "Deporter in Chief". And all of this was done without raising xenophobia and labeling a group of people as hard criminals and rapists.

I think they are referring to the protests that arose when media reported that non-violent illegal immigrants are being deported.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#146

Post by Dirlewanger »

kneel wrote: post #52

Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonated with him. Watching the witch hunt over the last 2 months you would think it would be anything but that. Fake news (just call it propaganda), russian hackers, 4chan memes and white supremacists have all received the majority of blame. I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double dow…

No one wants rational debate. In the case of UC Berkeley students, it's easier to cause property damage because an alleged Nazi (an entirely slanderous claim, btw) is given a platform to speak. No one wants to wade through the muck and find out what opposing viewpoints are actually saying.

Edit: And the people scoffing at my comment and hitting the downvote button are only proving my point.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#148

Post by rdl »

notabouthacking wrote: post #114
rdl wrote: post #46

The main reason I support Trump is his stance on 2A, and his nominees to SCOTUS (also colored by that issue.) 2A people are highly motivated to turn out to vote and were a major part of his support. (I was at a 4 day shotgun class during the election; there were long debates about the two acceptable candidates on multiple issues -- Johnson vs Trump.)

I've never understood the fear of the left taking away the second amendment. All my coastal elite progressive friends enjoy going to shooting ranges and at worst want thorough background checks and possibly a ban on high capacity magazines. Post-Trump, many progressive people of color are arming themselves out of fear of white nationalists. None of them want a gun ban.

People who are "2A voters" don't even consider the status quo to be acceptable -- they want HPA (removal of suppressors from NFA); probably a removal of SBR/SBS (treat them like handguns), repeal of Hughes and 922(r), and potentially nationwide reciprocity and potentially pre-emption. They also want reinforcement in SCOTUS decisions of 2A as an "individual right" vs. a "collective right" (which is why I don't support ACLU, incidentally, despite otherwise strongly agreeing with their positions.)

Hillary specifically was pushing for an "assault weapons ban" in multiple speeches, and magazine capacity bans, under the phrase "common-sense gun regulations." Who knows what actually would have come to pass, but she was definitely not going to put pro-2A justices into SCOTUS or expand 2A protections.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#149

Post by calchris42 »

After the election, my wife's first reaction was to cry. Her second reaction was "man, this shows we really don't understand a lot of people in our country." I applaud Sam for getting out and trying to improve his understanding.

I think Trump is very dangerous for our country. But that does not mean the people who voted for him are all evil bigots. On the left, we need to work harder to fight the more dangerous policy aspects, while not demonizing half our country. At the women's march post-inauguration, I was a bit taken aback by how hateful and not-conducive-to-fruitful-discussion many of the slogans were.

I don't really agree with the premise that America is no longer great. But anyway, I've had the thought that if we really want to "Make America Great again", a key starting point would be to reduce the hateful polarization.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#150

Post by darkmouth »

austenallred wrote: post #115
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

And what if life isn't as black and white as you seem to believe it is?

What is not black an white about global warming or evolution?

What is not black and white about abortion?

What is not black and white about refugees fleeing war?

What is not black and white about LGBT rights?

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