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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#421

Post by justinsaccount »

hkmurakami wrote: post #398
justinsaccount wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Leaders and managers of organizations have said that they'd like to sabotage the careers of Trump supporters and/or Republicans in their org. That's pretty threatening I think?

Again, people are worried about being murdered by radical christian terrorists. Worried about not being allowed to come home after leaving the country for a vacation. Worried about their healthcare and reproductive rights being taken away.

You are worried that a private organization that someone no right to be a part of might not want to have anything to do with the alt-right?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#422

Post by true_religion »

sedachv wrote: post #329
str33t_punk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a useless and unhelpful comment? This whole article was about figuring out why people voted for Trump so it doesn't happen again. Moral of the story was that comments like your's have drove a lot towards Trump. Some one makes a comment about why they support Trump, contributing to the article, and you immediately jump to an -ism that will probably push them farther towards that side. Do you not realize that you…

How is it useless and unhelpful? I am pointing out that people voted for Trump because they lack basic empathy and understanding towards other people's real problems. I like recreational shooting and was an NRA member for two years, enough to develop a serious dislike of 2nd amendment obsessives. Prioritizing your hobby over women's rights is disgusting.

If some values (e.g. abortion rights) are more important than others (e.g. constitutional rights), then the supporters of the important values should be willing to compromise their positions on the less important ones in order to build common ground.

You can't force other people to find your values important. You can't twist human psychology so that 'empathy' constantly will overrule self-gain.

What you can do is compromise. If the democratic party were pro-guns, pro-rural development, and also pro-abortion then you'd be surprised to find how many people would stand with them.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#423

Post by leesalminen »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #358
davidw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are illegal because the system is so broken. There's a market demand for those people, and they're moving here to work, by and large. Just because something is set in law does not make it morally right.

Maybe, but that market demand exists because they are outside the law. Keeping illegal immigrants here allows a permanent underclass which can be abused by companies in ways that American citizens can't. It allows a race to the bottom where only companies which hire illegal immigrants can lower the cost of their product to a competitive level. The only way to end this cycle is to stop allowing illegal immigrants to w…

So, in a way our President is actually standing up to the corporations and fighting for human rights?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#424

Post by panic »

justinsaccount wrote: post #270
austenallred wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Blowing terror incidents out of proportion is the exact same rhetorical tactic used against Muslims. In general, I think this cherry-picked focus on extremists is what got us into this mess. We need to spend less time spreading one-off news stories and more time listening to and empowering the actual people we're arguing over.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#425

Post by ameister14 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #25
savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

Is it unproductive though? Humans are social animals, and like to know they're doing the "right" thing, where "right" is often defined by what everyone else is doing. A common example of this kind of "social proof" is a counter productive littering campaign that told people that everyone was doing it. So people thought, well if it's good enough for them. It seems clear to me that people don't like being called racist…

Blasphemy laws didn't make people more religious. They just made it so people didn't talk about it. It's the same here.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#426

Post by ar15saveslives »

RangerScience wrote: post #282
ar15saveslives wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Gender/race war that radical "left" promote, has nothing to do with "inclusivity".

Okay, I'll bite. I don't actually know what you're talking about. I haven't experienced either a gender or a racial war, or the promotion of it. But I want to take this "personal". When have you, personally , been the victim of a gender / race war? (My hunch is that you haven't, but that you see the promotion of one, because it sells.) (Towards my points - the #1 difference is not the only difference, and there are d…

I like your logic. "You know, I have never been a victim of a murder, therefore murders don't happen".

When a company publicly announces "we're affirmative action company", I understand it as they openly exercise racism and/or sexism against me.

And trust me, as a divorced guy, I've experienced institutionalized sexism A LOT.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#427

Post by mrkurt »

wwweston wrote: post #152
Exofunctor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not vote for Trump, but I couldn't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at the reaction of my mostly very liberal friend group to his win. For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters while simultaneously insisting that he was a joke, there was no way he would beat Clinton, etc. and somehow convincing themselves that their political ideology was synonymous with science, truth, and re…

> unfairly denigrating Trump supporters Is there a way of fairly denigrating Trump supporters? > For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters while simultaneously insisting that he was a joke, there was no way he would beat Clinton, etc. and somehow convincing themselves that their political ideology was synonymous with science, truth, and reason. There may be liberal voters who make that…

> Is there a way of fairly denigrating Trump supporters?

It depends what you want to accomplish. Do you want to persuade them to be some other kind of supporters or score points with people who already agree with you?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#428

Post by antisthenes »

ComradeTaco wrote: post #192
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

I spent a summer working for some very conservative business owners. They asked me what I felt about the great society program during Johnson. I said that I thought it was a fine program that lifted a lot of people out of poverty. The following day they presented me a framed photo of Joseph Stalin. It's not just liberals that can be closed minded.

I'm now thinking of multiple ways the Stalin photo could have been interpreted.

What meaning did it have to you or them?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#429

Post by deanCommie »

boona wrote: post #283
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

The arrogance of your statement is shocking. Here are just a few counterpoints from a right wing perspective: -Deny science: Like saying there is no biological differences between a man and a woman. -Basic human rights: Like when applying for a job, that my skin color won't be taken into account? (i.e. race quotas) -Lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries: Like how the left defends Islam, wh…

The epitome of white privilege: Using race quotas as an example of "denial of basic human rights". To white people. Yes, surely that is the best example of denial of human rights in the US.

You lack the most basic amount of awareness of the culture around you, or empathy for others.

As for Islam, I'm tired of arguing with this strawman. Liberals do not defend Islam's policies regarding intolerance. Liberals defend the right for a human being to not be branded a suspected terrorist based solely on their race and/or religion, but rather based on evidence of their actual behaviour and actions.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#430

Post by boona »

agmcleod wrote: post #376
boona wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance of your statement is shocking. Here are just a few counterpoints from a right wing perspective: -Deny science: Like saying there is no biological differences between a man and a woman. -Basic human rights: Like when applying for a job, that my skin color won't be taken into account? (i.e. race quotas) -Lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries: Like how the left defends Islam, wh…

You are generalizing a number of points that he never spoke about though. I think those things about Islam are terrible, and would never defend it. Nor do I defend the stupidity that is christianity. But I also recognize people of the same religion have different levels of morality. Likewise I accept that women and men are different genetically, but that we should treat them equally. That said, I think silicon valley…

> You are generalizing a number of points that he never spoke about though.

I absolutely generalized, and I hate doing it! My point is that the left is not immune to these types of critiques. To point to the other side of aisle as unscientific, uncaring, etc, coupled with the belief that your side is none of theses things is tribalism, and amount to nothing more than "Blue team good, red team bad!" or vice versa. That's why having a dialog is so important, so that we can weed out bad ideas. Saying that "we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump" is just divisive and socially damaging.

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