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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#151

Post by jannettee »

revelation wrote: post #128
shruubi wrote: post #42

As someone who is Australian and not American, if anything like this happened and HR failed in the trainwreck like manner that they did in this story, we have a government organisation that oversees and enforces workplace legislation. It seems insane to me that the only recourse you have after HR is basically "gather evidence and sue" which seems to be common advice in this thread.

You can't sue, there is likely a mandatory arbitration clause in the employment contract (because why not, it's free) and it applies to everything .

Exactly, I saw this in my offer.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#153

Post by exolymph »

j_s wrote: post #61
grey-area wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suing would have lots of negative consequences, and few upsides. It would take up months of time, be immensely frustrating, stressful and lead other employers to be wary of you in future (even if most wouldn't admit it). Your name would be dragged through the mud by Uber in an attempt to derail the case, and you'd become an online target for haters (as with Ellen Pao). All for some uncertain monetary reward. Who need…

Companies such as Uber will continue these destructive behaviors until they face genuine consequences that impact their bottom line. You have summarized a number of reasons why I would never ask anyone to volunteer to be the one to accomplish this. This entire episode will hopefully shine some light on the true difficulties that need to be overcome to promote STEM diversity.

> Companies such as Uber will continue these destructive behaviors until they face genuine consequences that impact their bottom line.

Having a hard time recruiting is a serious consequence.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#154

Post by msisk6 »

jmduke wrote: post #17

I am struggling to think of something productive to contribute to this discussion, because this absolutely incensed me. In lieu of anything else: Susan deserves to be commended for her bravery in writing this.

Same here.

And you know; 100% of the women engineers I know have similar stories. 100%. That's insane.

These stories need to come out so the guilty companies and their toxic environments are exposed for all to see.

I'd encourage everyone here to pick up a copy of her O'Reilly book -- it's very good. Hopefully she gets all the income and none of it goes to Uber...

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#155

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

knucklesandwich wrote: post #133
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

Tech workers (across all disciplines) need to unionize to combat this kind of thing. As has been pointed out below, HR that is staffed and incentivized by the company management only serves the interests of the management. A union is the only structure that can actually win demands for workers by organizing workers to withhold their labor. It's not a panacea, and there are several historical examples of union leaders…

The problem is that workers don't have leverage like they used to due to globalization and a general labor surplus. We need to think of something that would work better than a union.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#156

Post by jxf »

sokoloff wrote: post #115
jacquesm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber can afford to subsidize your ride for the next 10 years or so. That doesn't mean it's long term viable, it just means that they're pumping money from one pot to another until the first one is empty and won't be refilled. They've raised over $10B...

I'm willing to take a discount on cabs for ten years. That it's not sustainable does not make it not a net positive to me. (I don't think any of my money is in that $10BB they raised.)

That line of thinking seems to miss a lot of the negative externalities [0] of a hypothetical world in which Uber is dominant.

Just to take one example, Uber doesn't pay the same taxes as taxi companies. Localities will be losing out collectively on a lot of revenue. Aren't you affected if your city has to raise taxes to compensate?

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Negative

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#157

Post by pvg »

moocow01 wrote: post #122
pvg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to hear more about this, is this something you've personally done or represented someone in such a case? What steps should one take in such a situation, if you have experience in it?

To some degree... my Uncle sued Fedex, his employer at the time, for unsafe working conditions about 10 years ago after being injured on the job. I'd actually call his lawsuit frivolous but he received a very large sum of money from it. About 5 years ago I used an attorney to communicate with my previous employer about a contract they had broken by not paying the agreed severance compensation. Im not sure why in this…

I'd say 'my uncle (not me) in a personal injury lawsuit' and 'I used a lawyer in a contract dispute that ended right there' is a very different setting from 'this is my job that i'd like to keep'.

I don't mean this is merely or even at all a matter of practical difficulty. Few people go home and toss in bed thinking about how they can sue their employer. I find 'she should have just sued' is pretty glib and why I ask "have you done that"? I don't think it's an easy thing and simply throwing it at someone who's taken the time to publicly describe their experience is rather missing the point.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#158

Post by jacquesm »

cbanek wrote: post #112
jacquesm wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read nothing about options in the article, did she mention those somewhere else?

I didn't either, but I mean, that's a very typical reason for people leaving near 1 year after a startup. And I'm almost certain Uber is offering some kind of equity package to engineers.

Sure, but until there is a liquid market that's worth $0. Who will you sell your newly vested shares to?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#159

Post by exolymph »

bsaul wrote: post #124

Clearly there's a problem in that company, but maybe some woman working in the US could answer to me : why isn't just answering to the first mail " sorry, not interested" then keep working there not an option ? to me, the term "harassment" means repetitive, morally painful actions from a boss to his employee. Obviously the guy has a huge problem with his sex life, but why report to HR instantly , instead of trying to…

Would you be okay with it if you started a new job and your boss instantly propositioned you?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#160

Post by calvinbhai »

elmar wrote: post #27
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

I am shocked, how is possible to get away with this toxic company culture.

probably because "Brilliant Jerks" are tolerated
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