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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#121

Post by peripitea »

jacquesm wrote: post #89
username223 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just sex, but sex in an "open relationship," presumably as "backup booty." It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work. Save transcripts and screenshots, find a new job, then sue at leisure.

> It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work. Some possibilities: - Because she's loyal to her co-workers - Maybe still not jaded enough to jump ship at the first reason - quite possibly didn't have another job lined up to jump ship to A year isn't all that long, and if things had been turned around who knows she mi…

Or maybe she has endured sexist bullshit for her entire career, and she is used to having to brush some of it off in order to follow her chosen career path.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#122

Post by moocow01 »

pvg wrote: post #83
moocow01 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - employee lawsuits are not that uncommon. The vast majority are settled before they see the inside of courtroom. The majority that do go to a courtroom go the employees way unfortunately for employers in frivolous cases. Talking to a labour law attorney to consult about your case is not that expensive - if you have an open and shut case most lawyers will want to work on a contingency fee anyways.

I'm happy to hear more about this, is this something you've personally done or represented someone in such a case? What steps should one take in such a situation, if you have experience in it?

To some degree... my Uncle sued Fedex, his employer at the time, for unsafe working conditions about 10 years ago after being injured on the job. I'd actually call his lawsuit frivolous but he received a very large sum of money from it. About 5 years ago I used an attorney to communicate with my previous employer about a contract they had broken by not paying the agreed severance compensation.

Im not sure why in this situation you would not consult with an attorney to explore your legal options? Consulting with an attorney and at least initially engaging in a legal discourse with your previous employer is really not that expensive and many times if you have a viable case the legal costs are paid only by a successful settlement. Im not sure what she has to lose here besides seeing if she can get a lawyer to take it on contingency and time documenting the damages.

My honest guess is that IF she has documentation, having an attorney engage Uber would just result in some form of settlement to not have it go into court.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#124

Post by bsaul »

Clearly there's a problem in that company, but maybe some woman working in the US could answer to me : why isn't just answering to the first mail " sorry, not interested" then keep working there not an option ?

to me, the term "harassment" means repetitive, morally painful actions from a boss to his employee. Obviously the guy has a huge problem with his sex life, but why report to HR instantly , instead of trying to see if the problem is that big and can't be solved by a person to person conversation, like grown up, first ?

EDIT : i'm not trying to be a jerk, and justify the behavior of that guy. I'd just like some woman working in tech in the US to explain to me what's wrong in my scenario.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#125

Post by lgleason »

notatoad wrote: post #118
kurthr wrote: post #10

HR doesn't work for you, it works for the company.

HR's job is to ensure that conflict gets resolved internally so it stays an HR problem and doesn't escalate to a legal or PR problem. HR has failed miserably in this instance, regardless of whose side you think they should be on.

I've seen HR departments give severance in scenarios like this in exchange for legal gag order. It may not be ethical, but it is legal in many states and does happen. There is Karma, but that is another story.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#127

Post by rhizome »

sokoloff wrote: post #71
u_wot_m8 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like the think that eventually karma will catch up with Uber. Hard to think of a single positive thing to say about the company.

Here's my positive thing. Taking a cab to the airport from my house in Cambridge, MA runs about $42 before tip, so call it $48 or so. An UberX costs $24.30 right now and UberPool costs $14.30 right now. Additionally, I can summon the ride more easily and get better feedback about the arrival time, giving me more confidence/less anxiety that I'll have a problem getting to the airport on time. As a consumer, by reducin…

To be sure, ethical consumer choices are a luxury and consequently you'll have to pay extra to make them.

If your only concern is the sticker price, then that is a ethical choice that you're certainly entitled to make, but that also necessarily involves a choice not to account for what goes into that sticker price (parallels with e.g. Walmart), and thus is a pretty limited principle. Possibly limited to the degree that it is actually merely self-serving.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#128

Post by revelation »

shruubi wrote: post #42

As someone who is Australian and not American, if anything like this happened and HR failed in the trainwreck like manner that they did in this story, we have a government organisation that oversees and enforces workplace legislation. It seems insane to me that the only recourse you have after HR is basically "gather evidence and sue" which seems to be common advice in this thread.

You can't sue, there is likely a mandatory arbitration clause in the employment contract (because why not, it's free) and it applies to everything.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#129

Post by afarrell »

I wonder if it would be a red flag for an engineer to continue to work at Uber for more than 6 months after this post comes out since it would signal that they either:

1) Approve of the culture there and don't see a reason to leave.

2) Aren't able to find another place to work.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#130

Post by allenz »

tfar wrote: post #51
HarryHirsch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR serves to protect the company, you have to think in HR's shoes. If the complainant goes away and finds another job the problem is solved. Most harassment cases tend not to end up in court, usually the aggrieved party quits.

"HR serves to protect the company" That point comes up every time a bad-HR related post is placed here. However, isn't it very short sighted to consider silencing/removing the accusers a protection of the company. This results in a bad culture and bad PR about that culture in developer circles. Won't the reduced diversity and all that comes with it have bad effect on the company long term?

It isn't short-sighted, because a discrimination lawsuit has unbounded liability and gets widely reported on. Words are temporary and can be whitewashed, whereas few companies can afford an admission of guilt.

In a reputable company, HR will pass the message higher up (probably off the record), and a manager will look at the evidence and make a good judgment. In this case, the evidence is clear, the manager should have been fired, and the employee given a sincere (but not in writing) apology and compensation.

Note that HR is a legal role. HR will never advise an employee to consider filing a lawsuit against the company, but instead dissuade the employee by saying that there isn't good evidence, it was an honest mistake, he has a family to feed, try to work with someone else. The saying exists because advice from HR is not in the employee's best interest.

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